Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] App intercomunication issues, some views. GSOUND ????
From: Toni Moreno Giménez (toni.moreno.gimenez_AT_wanadoo.es)
Date: Fri Aug 02 2002 - 01:42:12 EEST
El Jue 01 Ago 2002 22:13, Paul Davis escribió:
> >> ardour may well end up as the codebase for a bunch of libraries, but i
> >> don't think you could create ardour from a bunch of libraries.
> >
> >Well I have created a Rebirth 338 clone, can you create it ?.
> >To make a correct GSound design I must begin on more general and easy
> > apps. (Stage 1,Simple Editor-Rebirth).
>
> Thats where I disagree. The "more general" apps are the big behemoths
> like Nuendo. They require extremely complex designs if they are to
> work well. They often require totally different internal design than
> the small apps.
>
> There are a dozen or so small "rebirth-ish" clones floating around for
> linux.
ha ha ha ha!!!!
Well , as I can see, you have no tested any of them..... ( I have coded from
scratch)
> There are no multitrack, multichannel audio sequencers (yet;
> several are under development, and have been for several years). Why?
> Because the code designs used for the small programs don't scale in
> any way to the big ones.
Yes, I know is beacouse of I prefer make a base lib , completely scalable,
and ready to make small and big applications.
> The way Ardour has been written has been
> entirely intentional so far. Its driven by the fact that we have no
> useful source code base to look at for this stuff. We're all
> developing it in the dark so to speak, unlike kernel developers, web
> server and browser authors, and language implementors, who can
> frequently look at other code as examples of how to do something.
And where I can look documentation about your design?, perhaps I can learn a
lot, and implement it on gsound. (or prehaps may this acknowlegment remain as
a secret ) ?
> Consequently, I've aimed to include roughly working versions of as
> much functionality as possible early on, to be sure that the basic
> design can handle it *all*. Can the disk i/o system handle 32 tracks?
The dataflow system can handle as tracks as you want (and CPU supports), the
sampling frequency is user selectable. you can make any layout conection
system and append to any GsAmodLine as GsAmodPluggalble objects as you want.
> at 96kHz? can the transport mechanism handle auto-looping? can you
> punch in while playing? can undo/redo be designed in a way that makes
> it easy to undo/redo anything in an efficient and fast manner? what
> happens when there are hundreds of "regions" displayed on the screen?
> can you respond to MTC slaving? does your GUI handle control via MMC
> properly? and so on and so forth.
You are talking of much special features, the stage 1 for my project don't
take care about this punctual, features, I'm working now on the basic
architecture. But What you are saying is really easy to done when the final
GsAmodSequencer will be released. (Not now while working on the audio system
for emiting like midi events over Software Synths and FX ).
You are mixing GUI features("hundreds of "regions" displayed on the screen")
final application features ("undo/redo") and Data Features, in my opinion a
good desing may study "kind" of features, in separate way.
GSound: the interactive audio/midi/(perhaps video) general library.
GtkSound: the basic config/data manipulation GTK widgets.
GtkSKin: a specialy designed widget to make controls using graphical
designed images.
>
> in the future, it hopefully won't be necessary to do this. instead,
> you can go and look at rosegarden, muse, ardour, ecasound etc. and ask
> "how do they do it?"
Inside 90.000 lines of code ? without doc ? , without any aparent order ?
and then start from there. but right now, nobody
> really knows how to do all of this stuff unless they work at
> digidesign, emagic, steinberg or one of the few smaller companies that
> write such software.
nobody ?
>
> by writing "small" programs first, you end up with a codebase that has
> to constantly be radically overhauled as your expectations grow. i
> hope that when ardour reaches version 1.0, the codebase that relates
> to audio will not change very much at all (version 2.0 will include
> MIDI recording+sequencing support, and so there will be much new code
> to handle that).
OK!, your ardour seem to be a good application , designed for you.
Congratulations.
But features don't seem really complex to code in any Gsound 1 based app.
(now Gsound 0.2.1 ).
can libardour helpme to make a reason ? , can helpme to make a Tracktor DJ ?.
Can help begginer users to make sound appllications ?, where is the
architecture documentation, has ardour a studied architecture ready to grow
when needed ?, will support XMF ? , what kind of layout conection can I make
to put filters ?. Has ardour support for extended metadata inside wav files
?. Can I compile on Windows ? , can I compile on FreeBSD, Can I compile on
Linux without ALSA ?
Sincerely Paul, I think you are doing a big app, but you are doing ONE app,
and you think everybody will use it beacouse is the best app, but perhaps
people needs for other apps.
I'm working on 3 libs and 4 apps + doc, as you can understand current
features are now really poor. After 2 years of study I'm sure this
architecture can help to make one, or three ardours, if lad people can work
together. I 'm workign on a easy design for me, and for future users.... for
make easy a complete redesign if needed ( this is beacouse of I'm coding over
all documented and justified, I'm not a guru, I need for other people to fix
my errors, and bad design goals).
Only a question, what libs needs ardour ?
anyway, I see your opinion about eny other lad project diferent than ardour,
your ardour will be the application, who substitute, Logic Audio,
Cubase,Nuendo, Reason-Rebirth , any-trackers, pro-tools, dj-desk system, any
synth system, and whatever audio application existing on win and mac-os, in
any OS . ;)
Did you read / see , my doc/web ?, or simply are you explaining how good is
your app without seeing what I'm proposing.?
Best Regards.
=================
Toni Moreno Giménez
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Pje de las rosas nº 22
Vilassar de Mar
(Barcelona) España
CP: 08340
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Tel:937598149
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