Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]

oops, yeah, wrong discussion thread :)

I'm a coder too but not at all in linux-audio, although I started designing a few applications (nothing around DSP or linux core system, kernel, etc, this is way beyond my understanding at the moment. FYI, the closest thing to kernel stuff I did lately was patching oss2jack and kfusd so that this rather obsolete tool could run against kernel 2.6.29).

But yes, I wanted to bring a user's point of view to the LAD discussion.

About the dual boot, I don't know if it's the best solution but it is certainly a compromise. And one that I would not do myself. I tend to build my own PCs from various components for specific tasks. I find this process cheaper and feel I have a better control over its functioning / etc.

About KDE, I am not particularly fond of it, it's just an old habit. I could never get used to gnome although it looks like a fine WM as well. I tried other stuff as well but in the end, I always come back to the shell :)

OK, I'll stop the OT blabla.

J.
 

--- On Wed, 6/24/09, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@email-addr-hidden-dsl.net> wrote:

> From: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@email-addr-hidden-dsl.net>
> Subject: Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]
> To: "James Warden" <warjamy@email-addr-hidden>
> Cc: linux-audio-dev@email-addr-hidden
> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:05 AM
> I dunno if you're a coder too, but
> those words you wrote are the words of a user :).
>
> By the way I'm a fan of extremes, I like KDE (only with
> KWin) ex 3.5.9 and Ion2, but actually I'm running GNOME and
> this also has is advantages and disadvantages.
>
> Do you agree that a dual or multi boot might be the best
> solution to fit to all needs?
>
> I would interpret your mail this way. You didn't blame any
> sound server, but you make out for which usage you are fine
> with which sound server. Am I wrong?
>
> The 'palm pre' thread is uncoupled from the origin thread,
> that's why I guess it's okay to speak about user needs here,
> nobody will disturb any technical expert knowledge
> discussion at the original thread.
>
> By the way, an rt-audio distro like 64 Studio often works
> OOB for rt-audio too, not for my hardware, but it is made to
> fit to many hardware combinations.
>
> Thank you for reporting your experiences.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralf
>
> James Warden wrote:
> > Just a small comment, and then I shut up:
> >
> > the great thing about linux is its flexibility. I have
> a few boxes at home doing different things:
> > - a multimedia server based on mythtv, NFS and samba
> > - a powerful DAW running an RT patched kernel
> > - a couple of laptops for AOB (any other business)
> >
> > For the AOB laptops, it was nice not to do anything
> once I installed the distro. Things worked OOB, and that was
> it.
> >
> > For the DAW or multimedia server, that was another
> story ... but simply because customized systems require,
> well, customization. The all-in-one distro is and I think
> will remain a utopia.
> > This said, I recently upgraded my DAW to KDE 4.2 (was
> 3.5.9 before upgrade) and that automatically installed
> pulseaudio. I had already fiddled around with pulseaudio
> about a year ago due to my using VirtualBox (another story).
> I found pulse's features kinda cool and I quickly understood
> it was not meant as a replacement or alternative to
> Jack. 
> > As of today, my DAW has pulseaudio installed. But all
> I had to do was:
> > - open the KDE system settings - disable ALL sound
> stuff I could find
> >
> > So basically, KDE offered me the possibility to not
> interact at all with the sound layer. It was obviously not a
> default setting but it was just a few clicks away.
> >
> > So let me be straight: it should remain like that.
> > On average, a user installing e.g. KDE will expect
> desktop sounds to work (sound notifications, mp3 players,
> DVD playback, what-not). That's not what I want in my DAW at
> all but being myself an old linux "power user", I knew that
> it would do that (experience with artsd). I mean,  how
> could the KDE installation possibly know that it was to be
> running on a DAW ?! :D I am glad the desktop config
> interface allowed me to configure it the way I wanted (no
> extra special services in the background, no sound system
> other than what I want for my DAW). 
> > Now, if things were to change (no longer the
> possibility to configure e.g. KDE the way I want), I would
> definitely feel pissed-off and complain on some mailing
> lists. But let's be also clear: pulseaudio is definitely NOT
> the worst things that could happen. It works fine on my
> laptops, I don't need to do anything about it and that's
> what it was intended for: a generic and multifeatured
> desktop sound system. But desktops are also used in other
> contexts (e.g. DAW) and it would really be wise to keep
> desktop components _optional_ (not only sound system but
> also visual effects, etc). That's just simple wisdom and i
> suggest we keep it that way. The same applies to jack. It is
> a highly specialized tool and should remain so.
> >
> >
> > OK, time to disappear from this discussion.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > J.
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@email-addr-hidden-dsl.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> From: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@email-addr-hidden-dsl.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE]
> Safe real-time on thedesktop by default; Desktop/audio RT
> developers, read this!]
> >> To: "james morris" <james@email-addr-hidden-art.net>
> >> Cc: linux-audio-dev@email-addr-hidden
> >> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:45 AM
> >> james morris wrote:
> >>     
> >>> On 24/6/2009, "Patrick Shirkey" <pshirkey@email-addr-hidden>
> >>>       
> >> wrote:
> >>     
> >>>         
> >>>> It would be helpful if things that could
> make a
> >>>>         
> >> big impact will
> >>     
> >>>> continued to be discussed within the LAD
> >>>>         
> >> community. However this is a
> >>     
> >>>> difficult situation. No matter if the
> discussions
> >>>>         
> >> are starting prior to
> >>     
> >>>> implementation or post implementation the
> general
> >>>>         
> >> direction of the
> >>     
> >>>> arguments tend to be quite emotional.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is it just because audio guys have a bit
> more
> >>>>         
> >> artistic temperament than
> >>     
> >>>> most other developers?
> >>>>           
>  
> >>> I don't think this adds much to what has been
> stated
> >>>       
> >> by Fons and others,
> >>     
> >>> but perhaps it explains a little?
> >>>
> >>> I'm not a hardcore audio developer like most
> of the
> >>>       
> >> guys here, but I've
> >>     
> >>> been making audio/music/noise, and coding,
> since the
> >>>       
> >> days of 486sx25s
> >>     
> >>> and windows 3.1. Back then, and for many years
> after,
> >>>       
> >> it was a real
> >>     
> >>> concern to be able to disable as many
> irrelevant (to
> >>>       
> >> audio) processes in
> >>     
> >>> the system as possible (as I'm sure you're
> aware).
> >>>
> >>> Now I have a pretty capable system, but when I
> want to
> >>>       
> >> run RT audio apps
> >>     
> >>> I still want to disable as many irrelevant
> processes
> >>>       
> >> on the system as I
> >>     
> >>> can.
> >>>
> >>> For this reason I really dislike the big
> monolithic
> >>>       
> >> desktop environments.
> >>     
> >>> There are several applications tied into them
> (some
> >>>       
> >> serious, plain
> >>     
> >>> useful, or just fun) which I'd love to have
> working
> >>>       
> >> but which force me
> >>     
> >>> to install all sorts of software I really
> don't want
> >>>       
> >> or need - along
> >>     
> >>> with all sorts of processes running in the
> >>>       
> >> background.
> >>     
> >>> So it feels a bit freedom eroding. The choice
> seems to
> >>>       
> >> be between a
> >>     
> >>> system which 'just works' but which wastes
> system
> >>>       
> >> resources on things
> >>     
> >>> I don't want, or a system which I have to
> spend hours
> >>>       
> >> setting up,
> >>     
> >>> constantly have to deal with the
> idiosyncrasies of,
> >>>       
> >> but which is as fast
> >>     
> >>> and powerful as it could be.
> >>>
> >>> The notions of old, to raise the potential for
> system
> >>>       
> >> resources to be
> >>     
> >>> only used for the job at hand (ie audio) are
> still
> >>>       
> >> strongly rooted and
> >>     
> >>> people don't like it when they feel their
> freedom to
> >>>       
> >> use systems in
> >>     
> >>> this way is threatened by forcing them to
> install
> >>>       
> >> software and have
> >>     
> >>> running processes they don't want.
> >>>
> >>> James.
> >>>       
> >> I guess (if needed) separating rt and
> bread-and-butter
> >> Linux by having a dual-boot is an acceptable
> solution. A user with nearly no
> >> knowledge could install a comfortable distro for
> the everyday desktop
> >> environment and another for real-time usage. Even
> if somebody don't
> >> have any trouble with his Linux install, he might
> wish to have a safe Linux
> >> for productions and another Linux to have fun and
> fun sometimes
> >> means to risk things, you won't risk for a
> installation that needs
> >> to be stable all the time, that's why a dual-boot
> has also an advantage,
> >> if there will be a joint venture for distro/
> desktop developers and
> >> rt hardliners. I have a bad mobo and for rt e.g. I
> need to set
> >> irq priority for especially the one port where the
> MIDI is connected to.
> >> I don't think things like that should be done by
> the desktop
> >> environment. This seems to be impossible.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Linux-audio-dev mailing list
> >> Linux-audio-dev@email-addr-hidden
> >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
> >>
> >>     
> >
> >
> >   
>    _______________________________________________
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> > Linux-audio-dev@email-addr-hidden
> > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
> >
> >   
>
> -- Secret of Tux: http://images.wallaceandgromit.com/user_uploads/forum_thumbnails/5/75/355.jpg
> "Gromit bit me" says HMV dog: http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_03/GomitHMVPA_468x319.jpg
>
>

      
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Received on Wed Jun 24 16:15:05 2009