Re: [LAD] At the hands of Professor Keller and Raymond

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Raymond Martin <laseray@email-addr-hidden> wrote:

> On Monday 03 August 2009 08:12:24 you wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:09 AM, Raymond Martin <laseray@email-addr-hidden>
> wrote:
> >
> > I suggest that Raymond keep picking the GPL issues of Impro-Visor, till
> > everything is fixed. I'm not saying that Raymond should join now or that
> he
> > can't have his fork, but I hope that at some point Raymond can join the
> > Impro-Visor project and help improving Impro-Visor. Cause imho this will
> be
> > the best for all parties including and especially the end-user.
>
> Hopes do not always come true.

True most of the time ;)

> This case is probably one of those times
> because someone else has made it next to impossible to help the original.
>
> Take a little inventory. Kicked off group, when not even sending messages
> to
> it. Before that (last year), had messages censored due to differing ideas
> (uphold GPL, distribute source, add improvements). A mailing list for the
> SF
> Impro-Visor project is created. What chance do I have of getting on that or
> staying on it if allowed to join given the previous actions?

I think the changes to get on it is pretty high, if you and Prof Keller
takes time, also for dialogue. I think he is open for it.

> So I have to
> create my own list where I know I will be fair and let everyone have their
> say.
>
> Let us not forget the negative comments on that group that basically
> attempt
> to alienate those of us who believe in FOSS from that project, as if there
> is
> something wrong with us. That is not helpful.

You're right, but maybe it was a reaction on negative comments he got and
misunderstanding about GPL.

>
>
> It is very shortsighted to believe that the best interest of a project
> remains
> with the original. It may or may not, depends on the circumstances--the
> quality of the code and so forth. It is a myth that only the originators of
> a technology can make the best version. The history of computing disagrees
> with this attitude, no matter how many people seem to believe it.

You can join and make your improvements to Impro-Visor. If they not accept
it, we can see what the arguments are and if they're right or not.
I'm not interested in examples from the past though.

>
>
> To better the software requires a different attitude, an open attitude. A
> closed Yahoo group, with censoring, kicking people off. GPL violations.
> Negative attitude towards FOSS, even after numerous messages and
> an apparent change. These kinds of things really do not shout free and
> open to me in any measure.

you're right. But you also have seen that the attitude of the project is
changing now, with the change it will reach a satisfying state for many of
us.

>
>
> I'm sure all this babbling has run its course for most on this list. That
> is why we can move discussions to my list, where everyone can argue
> to their heart's content. Or you can join the Improvisor Google group
> (http://groups.google.com/group/improvisor). I let anyone join and have
> tried to put the settings as low as possible to keep it very open. This
> is not what you are seeing with Impro-Visor.

Impro-Visor has launched an open mailinglist now.

Kind regards,

\r

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Received on Mon Aug 3 20:15:04 2009