Re: [LAD] Looking for an introduction to rt programming with a gui

On 05/26/2010 12:39 PM, torbenh wrote:
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 09:09:57PM +0200, Arnout Engelen wrote:
>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 07:24:20AM +0200, torbenh wrote:
>>>> This IDE with all this syntax checking and refactoring tools (and I might call
>>>> them bells and whistles sometimes..) produces a real "added value".
>>>>
>>>> That makes me think that the development environment can really completely
>>>> change the way you perceive a language or framework. There must be something to
>>>> do for C lovers too, be it in Eclipse or not.
>>> it will probably work similarly if you use eclipse cdt.
>>> but i prefer to have a real buildsystem with C++
>>> and then eclipse doesnt know about your c files.
>> Knowing what a huge productivity boost Eclipse gives for Java, I was a bit
>> underwhelmed by CDT - but perhaps I just somehow hadn't configured it
>> completely.

My C files just looked as in notepad with CDT... I can't remember what it did
with C++.

>
> yeah. i cant realize any productivity boost if you take the vi interface
> from me :) but since eclim maps most of the eclipse stuff into vim
> i could realize the boost.
> eclipses editor doesnt feel snappy to me. the other threads doing the
> linting and stuff are a bit annoying, i like how eclim only does linting
> when i hit :w (which i do after almost every editing step by reflex :)

That's nice indeed. I don't like the way Eclipse won't let me type a dozen
characters without underlining everything in red, because it lints permanently.

> the most important thing is that you can cooperate with eclipse users
> while still using vim.
>
>> (Java 'haters' would argue that Java is just such a bad/verbose language that
>> you need the IDE, and IDE's are useless for proper languages. There's *some*
>> grain of truth there, but on the whole I don't buy it :) )

Yes, there's some truth in that. I'm not sure that it comes from Java itself,
but maybe from Java culture and practices, which involve many classes for the
simpler operations, not to mention the verbose and long names.

I'm currently developing for Android in Java, and Eclipse is the /recommended/
way to go. But I realize that I'm slowing coming back to the command line,
learning the ant stuff and such ;) Especially since I'm writing a lot of native
code with the Android NDK (and vim ;).

> when writing code i find vims natural completion good enough most of the
> time. what i am missing is a working "jump to definition" for ambiguous
> method names, when reading code.
>
> having instant linting is pretty helpful.
> and using eclim certeinly improved my python productivity too.

I haven't tried eclim yet, since I'm doing C right now and AFAIK that won't help.

But there's another thing that I also realized: after spending a few hours in
Eclipse, I found myself a bit "abandoned" in Vim, as if nobody was holding my
hand anymore ;-)

And that's where I think that productivity is not the whole point. There's
something great (and maybe beautiful) in writing without any aid, which makes
you learn and thus understand the language, libraries, and your own code better.
This could lean toward quality I believe...

Quality or productivity, that's the question ;)

--
  Olivier
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