Re: [LAD] a *simple* ring buffer, comments pls?

> In the example I provided the essential point is that there
> is *one* *correct* access pattern which is to read it once
> for each call to f(), to ensure that the same value is used
> everywhere in that function. Declaring this value volatile
> and taking a local copy does exactly the right thing.
> The alternative would be protect it by a mutex for as long
> as f() runs. For no good reason, as I don't mind it being
> overwritten while f() runs. Would that be more 'optimal' ?

Ah. pthread_mutex_lock() / unlock(), as EXTERNAL functions, will never
be optimized away or inlined. Now, being all sequence points, if you
simply do

pthread_mutex_lock();
xval = x;
pthread_mutex_unlock();

the compiler is not allowed to move statements out the locked section
or reorder them in any way (without need for any volatile qualifiers).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_point

(or the C89 standard). This is another point that people forget --
many reorderings that they wish to prohibit using volatile are already
prohibited by the "sequence point theory".

In fact, I think the optimization you fear might not be allowed by
sequence points, even without any mutex calls (or volatiles) at all --
depending on your actual code.

>> OK, even if your disk thread is periodic for some reason, how does
>> that argue for library-level synchronization, *instead of* app-level
>> synchronization? In this case the cost would be the same -- no loss.
>
> I don't see the point.

You initially replied to my advice to not do any sync at *lib-level*
(jack/ringbuffer.h), and leave sync up to the app (whoever includes
jack/ringbuffer.h). But we're splitting hairs now.

> No, I'm talking about SMP systems. Writing the data and updating
> the write pointer is done by the same thread and hence CPU, these
> actions won't be re-ordered.

I see. But as I said, in general the cache coherency problem is worse
than the pipeline reordering problem -- i.e. when there are multiple
CPUs/cores using different caches, they may see actions out-of-order.

>> "Intel and AMD" only?
>
> There is no legal obligation for code to be portable. Nor is there
> any moral obligation. If I choose to support only Intel and AMD PCs
> and not embedded systems or mobile devices (and for the kind of SW
> I write that does make sense) then that is my choice, period.

Your call. Still, don't forget that x86 != AMD + Intel -- there are
also VIAs, and others. I don't really know how widespread they are in
"PCs", or what guarantees they offer. I also don't know if your
non-reordering assumption (for which I haven't really seen any hard
documentation -- though I've heard rumours too) applies to Intel
Atom's, AMD Geode's etc (some of which may be in netbooks, OLPC etc).

> waving their finger about programming style etc. There is room for
> some pragmatism in everything.

OK... This thread's subject is about programming advice though :)

Plus, when there is no big cost to doing things "by the book", I think
developers should be encouraged to keep their code portable, at least
in order to save the world future pains a-la Y2K etc.

-- Dan
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev@email-addr-hidden
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Received on Sun Jul 10 20:15:03 2011