Re: [LAD] User eXperience in Linux Audio

Hey everyone!

I was reading what you, Fons, wrote, and I must say that I very strongly
disagree with the direction your arguments are taking.

1. "If a developer holds some views that go against those of the average
user he will have some very good reasons for that."

I guess this is irrelevant to the average user. And it instantly puts your
views outside of most people's workflow needs.
Additionally, the phrase "good reasons" is too ambiguous. Good for who?
Perhaps, it is good for the developer, but not for the user.

Linux Audio packages are plagued by reasons that are relevant to the
developer, but which should be irrelevant to the user.
I don't care if dev thinks knobs are a bad idea, I want a knob and not a
text field, because it is easier to use on stage.
I don't care if dev has a technical reason to have a text field instead of
a knob. I need a knob, because it is easier to use on stage.

In the end, what you are suggesting is developer-centered world, not
user-centered. Which is fine philosophy, but then you should understand
that the likely consequence of that would be software which is generally
not useful to anyone but a select few.

2. "There is *no reason at all* to assume that the average user's ideas are
'the right ones'."

Actually, there is very good reason. Things that end up in most software
are things that have survived the evolution and natural selection of
software. Standard user interfaces are backed up by the endorsement of
many-many actual users, who havin invested in the software, who have used
it professionally and have chosen them over other user interfaces. Just
look at the history of DAWs on Windows and see how UI and workflows have
evolved. There is great deal to learn from it.

Unlike most of the Linux world, proprietary software is under severe
competitive pressure. That means that bad work, difficult to use GUIs and
useless features generally do not survive.

3. "They way typical Windows SW works is not dictated by user interest. It
is determined entirely by the short-term views of marketeers."

Oh really. Can you back this up with actual evidence?

Most commercial companies are extremely user-centric. Especially DAWs. They
are geared towards musicians needs and most of these companies are
religiously dedicated to their users.

Are you saying Ableton Live is driven by short-term view of marketeers? Can
you prove that? Can you explain why Ableton hired a whole number of actual
performing musicians to help them test their software? Or that they have a
room-full of people testing their software *everyday*? Can you show
evidence that Image Line does not care about user feedback and have some
short-term marketing views? Have you ever seen how these companies interact
with the user and what level of feedback and actual feedback-based
development is going on there? Have you ever actually used their software
in studio and on stage?

Honestly, I think this is a statement that you will not be able to back up.
It is simply not true.

4. "If it were no user would ever have any reason to abandon Windows and go
for Linux."

This statement assumes that the only reason people move to Linux is because
they do not like non-Linux software. Which is a highly questionable
statement.

Among all my friends not one cites that reason as the chief one. In fact,
many people miss the great proprietary software they had and wish something
like that would emerge in the FLOSS scene.

No, a great many people move to Linux for ideological reasons and in some
areas for security and financial reasons. But I am yet to meet a person who
has a wide range of interests and who has moved to Linux because he does
not like non-Linux software. Most of it is clearly superior and such a move
is possible in singular cases of extremely niche products that do indeed
exist only on Linux, usually of very technical nature.

It would be interesting to make a more or less scientific study of that.
Perhaps some exist? But surely, the initial statement is doubtful and
requires more than just someone's word for it.

5. "Every time the Linux community adopts some stupid Windows 'standard'
for the sole reason that it is 'what users expect', this goes against its
own long term interests. If Linux ever becomes the perfect Windows clone
then it has destroyed its main reason to exist, which is to be different
and better."

I guess I am not aware Linux community has any long term interests. Last
time I checked, Linux community is a diverse group of people with very
different interests. Not to mention that your version of long term
interests (to be different and better) is highly ambiguous, difficult to
formalize and open to all sorts of interpretations.

And, of course, I would like to know what kind of "stupid Windows
standards" we are talking about. A number of user-centric features that
Linux Audio packages often lack do not seem stupid to me. Is the ability of
a delay plugin to automatically get the hosts tempo - a stupid Windows
standard? If so, I would prefer more stupid Windows standards to be adopted
in the Linux Audio community, because they are sure very smart to me, the
actual user of the software. Who wants to use it to compose music, you
know. Not configure it to death.

6. "Regarding shortcuts for close/quit etc.: they are not always wanted."

Well, the important thing here, then, is to not demand the user surrenders
to what a single "wise" developer thinks, but take time and effort to
actually research when various shortcuts and other things ARE wanted. And
not by a couple of fellow developers, but actual musicians, actual end
users.

A given shortcut might not be desirable always, but it can be desirable in
97% of important cases, which might be a good reason to justify it.

What I see constantly in the Linux Audio community is immaturity on a grand
scale about UI and workflow design. Weak competition and often small
user-base shapes many Linux Audio tools into difficult to use software.
Weird, rarely needed features are put in the center under the slogan of
"enforcing the user with more options", making it impossible to do simple
jobs efficiently. The inability to just make a simple track is defended by
criticism towards "pop music". Clear bugs and lack of convenience are
explained away by technical and architectural ramblings. This is very sad,
very irrational and leads to exactly the closeness of the Linux Audio
community that I am seeing throughout the years.

I would welcome an honest understanding of the real problems that Linux
Audio community faces. This is useful even if we are not able to solve them
this very moment.

I can understand that UI design is a big-big job that costs a lot of money
to research and develop. This is a tough challenge.

But what I do not understand is that blazing conquest of dismissing the
real state of things with anti-user propaganda.

Get real. Linux Audio is interesting and has potential. But currently it is
not the pioneering technology. And even if some of it is, most of it is too
difficult to setup and use for anyone to actually notice it, in real life
circumstances.

Louigi.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Fons Adriaensen <fons@email-addr-hidden>
wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 08:16:05AM +0200, Thijs van severen wrote:
>
> > We need to be aware of the fact that most people on this list are devs
> and
> > therefore do NOT represent the average user
>
> We also need to be aware of the following:
>
> * Developers are not necessarily coding nerds who are completely
> isolated from the daily practice of using software. Most of them
> on this list are actually users themselves.
>
> * If a developer holds some views that go against those of the
> average user he will have some very good reasons for that. There
> is *no reason at all* to assume that the average user's ideas
> are 'the right ones'. Most people prefer unhealthy food with a
> high salt/fat/sugar content. Never mind if they get diabetes
> sooner or later. If someone goes against that and produces some
> healthy food then I don't think that is 'a very wrong attitude'
> as you put it.
>
> * They way typical Windows SW works is not dictated by user
> interest. If it were no user would ever have any reason to
> abondon Windows and go for Linux. It is determined entirely
> by the short-term views of marketeers. There is no reason at
> all to assume that the same logic should apply to free open
> source software.
>
> * Every time the Linux community adopts some stupid Windows
> 'standard' for the sole reason that it is 'what users expect',
> this goes against its own long term interests. If Linux ever
> becomes the perfect Windows clone then it has destroyed its
> main reason to exist, which is to be different and better.
>
> Regarding splash screens: yes, some apps take a long time
> to start up. In most cases that is because they have either
> become bloated themselves, or depend on interaction with
> bloated desktop environments. That is by itself good reason
> for concern. Using a splash screen to fix that is at best a
> bandaid. That doesn't mean that a splash screen is by itself
> a bad idea - but it certainly is if its only reason to exist
> is to hide the results of crappy design.
>
> Regarding shortcuts for close/quit etc.: they are not always
> wanted. When I'm recording live I don't want any single key
> or mouse click to accidentally interfere with that. It's bad
> enough with e.g. Ardour's GUI - every single pixel of it will
> do something when clicked on, and the result is not always
> so benign. I've had a musician dropping his shoulder bag on a
> cable to a cardbus interface during a live recording. This
> ripped out the card and destroyed the mechanical card locking
> system. So having an accidental click or key pushed is not at
> all such a remote risk.
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> FA
>
> A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
> It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
> and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-dev mailing list
> Linux-audio-dev@email-addr-hidden
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>

-- 
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/

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Received on Wed Apr 22 16:15:01 2015