Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] more music produced with Ardour and JAMin
From: Florin Andrei (florin_AT_andrei.myip.org)
Date: Mon Dec 06 2004 - 19:48:15 EET
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 00:28 -0800, R Parker wrote:
> --- Florin Andrei <florin_AT_andrei.myip.org> wrote:
> > Yes, it's bass-heavy and "cottony" :-) and obviously
> > has no reverb, etc.
> > Just like a live recording, dry, punchy and
> > in-your-face. I think it's
> > appropriate for this kind of music. Cool anyway!
>
> In-your-face isn't what I imagine as the typical jazz
> mix. The mix you heard is what I played for my client.
[snip]
> The recording is all close mics on everything. What
> you heard is a "tight" mix.
Ah, yes, makes sense, close-in mics. A real expert could have figured it
out immediately, but i'm no expert. :-/
That was actually a good lesson, thank you!
W.r.t. the "in your face" keep in mind that i mostly listen to
"ethereal" stuff all day long, lots of reverb and so on. By comparison,
your dry, close in, honest-to-sound mix is downright aggressive. :-)
Personal bias and all that...
> > Quite notable, on the Sennheiser cans it actually
> > has quite a bit of
> > breathing room while on the Alesis monitors it's
> > much more closed. This
> > is one of the mixes that sound very different on my
> > two main listening
> > tools.
> The Sennheiser cans can't represent bottom end to the
> degree that the Alesis monitors will.
Hmmm, i thought the Alesis (M1 Active MkII) are actually bass-heavy,
while the HD600 are "accurate". :-) Different ears and all that.
To my ears, the M1 Active sound louder in the low spectrum, while the
HD600, even though a bit more quiet, actually dive deeper.
Too bad i can't show you what i hear. It's like there's a lump in your
mix's spectrum that sits right on top of the M1 Active's lump, somewhere
in the mid-bass.
The Senn HD600 are cool with that, there's no (perceivable) lump, albeit
bass is still vigorous.
As for the high freqs, on the M1 Active the mix sounds "dark", which to
me is surprising - these monitors are a bit harsh and, depending on the
sound, can be a teeny bit bright.
The Seen cans are cool again with it - it sounds spacey and open.
It's very weird. I guess the mix is pretty close to the ideal shape,
it's just one detail or two to be smoothed out, to make it sound uniform
across many different speakers (which, according to the "wise old ones"
it can be a chore sometimes).
> That might not
> explain the full story though because you indicate
> that other mixes are more comparable. Are the
> comparable mixes not as bass oriented? Any thoughts on
> this?
No... yes... um, well...
There's that lump in the bass region which the Alesis M1 Active will
reveal like a blister on a pretty face on every mix that has strong bass
components. But that's not it, i'm used to that, my brain will "EQ" it
out automatically.
It's what i said above - the mix sounds dark and cottony on the M1
Active, which is very surprising (they're a bit harsh usually), while it
sounds open, airy and breathing on the Sennheiser. Well, perhaps it
lacks weight in the hi-freqs, but that's more like a hunch.
I would try to add more flesh in the high freqs - but please always keep
in mind my personal bias that i mentioned. <shrug>
I might actually be looking in a very different direction than yourself.
> Perhaps not of much interest is that I seldomly use
> headphones and probably never listened to this mix on
> phones. I might be guilty of being lazy.
I think you're right - it must sound good on speakers first.
But anyway, keeping a pair of outstandingly good phones around is wise.
Those things reveal minute details that may not be perceivable on
speakers (unless you're using monitors the price of a small car).
Really good phones will give you that hyper-analytical view that a
speaker may simply gloss over. Then you'll be like that clever boss that
keeps a nerd around and consults with him before making big decisions,
just because nerds are pathologically good at spotting tiny mistakes.
> > I would suspect that adding just a droplet of reverb
> > (turn the reverb
> > down until you can't hear the tails, then turn it a
> > bit more) would open
> > it up on pretty much any speaker, but that's just a
> > wild guess.
>
> I should post the dry and current snare. What you
> describe is basically what's on the snare and sax.
Funny, after i posted the message i started to think - "hm, maybe there
is a bit of reverb in there, after all". I just couldn't put my finger
on it.
Again, that's another thing that i learned. This list is awesome!
Anyway, overall i think it's an excellent job. It fits the music (it
really feels like a club) and that's what's most important.
-- Florin Andrei
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