Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Midi app & Video app with SMPTE and/or MTC
From: Russell Hanaghan (hanaghan_AT_starband.net)
Date: Thu Dec 23 2004 - 19:38:18 EET
John Check wrote:
>On Wednesday 22 December 2004 06:58 pm, Brad Fuller wrote:
>
>
>>John Check wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Side note to list at large: Consider this mans problem and what he needs
>>>to do to get his problem solved ASAP.
>>>
>>>On Wednesday 22 December 2004 05:02 pm, Brad Fuller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I need to sync video playback and midi composition. I guess I should
>>>>first ask if anyone knows of midi/audio apps that have video playback
>>>>builtin -- that would be preferable.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know of any -- and that's why I am asking this 2nd question: if
>>>>anyone knows of midi composition apps that can sync using SMPTE/MTC to a
>>>>video playback app -- which would also have to have SMPTE sync
>>>>capabilities.
>>>>
>>>>This seems to be a hole in the audio caps of Linux apps. Or, am I way
>>>>off base?
>>>>
>>>>brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>muse.seh.de
>>>
>>>MuSE will slave to time code, but can't drive. The 6 series has some
>>>serious deficiencies with timing stability. I don't know how tightly it
>>>will sync, but your best bet is probably version 7 (which needs some
>>>tweaks to build out of the box). You'll have to check on the status of
>>>what's in CVS on their lists, which are hosted @ sourceforge. Or if
>>>they're lurking, now would be a good time to de-cloak.
>>>
>>>
>>Thanks. Checking it out now. Setup says it can be master or slave.
>>Hmmm... need to look at the doc.
>>
>>
>
>The GUI is implemented but not the back end. Myself and another user
>spent a not insignificant amount of time diagnosing and testing the sync
>capability of MuSE before the developer who implemented it decided to let us
>in on the fact that it wasn't a complete implementation.
>
>
>
>
>>I have version 7. Kinda crummy that it crashed when I went to the Global
>>Settings. It also never wanted to play an imported midi file (pressing
>>Play did not advance the cursor). After the crash, it advanced the
>>cursor, but I couldn't get it to play to qsynth.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Side Note to rest of list: I haven't mentioned this here yet, but it happened
>and... I know they're working on it, but... well... You'll begin to understand
>why I'm condescending sometimes, like right now. It's all a matter of public
>record, so I'll be kind.
>
>Flamers: I'm gone until at least Friday night, so figure I'll be back to
>humiliate you by Monday latest. Yer best bet? Go birddog some chicks
>and get yer aggression out in a healthy way. You won't care about me anymore.
>
>People who get it: Don't bother with the flamers, I can handle 'em and
>besides, nobody will care in 48 hours, so just let 'em rant and that should
>be humiliating enough where I can ignore them and do work instead.
>
>we now return you to our regular email, all ready in progress.
>--
>
>Be that as it may, the 6 series is a total dog and it's just not going to cut
>it if you have any intention of using external synths. That is to say
>anything that isn't a MESS plugin, such as the wavetable on my soundcard or
>an external module.
>I know for a fact because I wasted about two and a half weeks cocking around
>trying to find out why it wasn't communicating with anything but the soft
>synths (which were broken because of changes in libtool, which meant I had
>ugatz (zero) to make noise. I don't know libtool, I have hardware, why should
>I have to tackle that learning curve for somebody else?). The only reason it
>took that long was I could not convince the developers it was a MuSE problem
>until I reluctantly made extensive unnecessary updates to several parts of
>the OS even though comparative analysis with ever other MIDI player on the
>platform supported my conclusion.
>Once _that_ was done, the developers could not reproduce the problem because
>they all use the softsynths and none of 'em had bone stock systems. I tried
>diffing CVS to pin down the introduction of breakage but due to some
>tomfoolery with CVS when they branched from 6 to 7, the actual commit that
>caused this breakage between 6.0 (seriously broken GUI) and 6.1 (seriously
>broken MIDI) was lost so trees had to be diffed "by hand".
>
>Long story short, the change that broke the MIDI output was due to a poor
>realtime memory allocation implementation in the thread that handles the
>_external_ MIDI, so the change was rolled back for a final 6 series
>maintenance release. Unfortunately, the timing stability is so horrendously
>hit or miss, that unless you're blazing a new path where things like tempo,
>rhythm or repeatability aren't important it's basically a boat anchor.
>
>I'd have mentioned it before but you didn't ask about usability and I try to
>answer the asked questions. Trashing somebody's program is also a good way to
>start a shitstorm and we've got plenty of that already. Anyway, they have a
>list archive (not searchable or easy to find).
>
>
>
>>I'm sure it's my fault not being familiar with the app.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I can't say anything here that isn't going to piss off somebody so I'll
>just say it; Unfortunately, MuSE is a steaming pile of dogshit. It's got a lot
>of potential but the developer pool is just too small for it to be useful for
>production any time in the foreseeable future.
>Rosegarden4 is the sequencer that works, but it doesn't sync at all.
>
>
>
>>I'll check it out some more...
>>
>>
>>
>
>IIRC they have a release pending, so maybe you'll get lucky, but if history is
>any indicator expect to spend some time getting a build before you can test
>it.
>
>Apologies for having two conversations at once, but you demonstrate
>a point that's a little too subtle for some people; It seemed like a good idea
>at the time to bring it up. The rest of this is the parallel track, so you
>can ignore it but, if you wouldn't mind terribly can you comment on the
>following question?
>
>If I saved you two weeks aggravation in a business context, would you think
>it was a valuable service? As in would that be an acceptable "cost of doing
>business" type of expense, like say insurance, but it was offset by reduced
>TCO as compared to proprietary systems.
>
>Regards,
>J
>
>---
>
>Now I shall pontificate unto the rest of ye what knows who they are.
>
>Developers: Here is my experience. Which project is yours more like?
>
>Time spent as MuSE developer: Maybe 6-8 months
>Number of patches accepted (and I'm not a coder): 2
>Number of releases during my time as a user: 4
>Number of "unbuildable out of the box" releases: 4
>Number of releases that didn't have major problems after build: 0
>Number of platforms supported by app: 1
>Reason I walked: Developer pool too small, developers too dense.
>Reason I started: App _looked_ pretty good, was fairly usable and was about as
>far along functionality wise as FGFS when I got into that which is to say, it
>goes, but it doesn't behave anywhere like the real deal.
>
>Time spent as FlightGear Flight sim developer (as in releases depended on me
>as a core developer designated by the project lead even though I don't code):
>5+ years
>Number of patches accepted: "Several" but I approved incoming patches in my
>melieu (base package), so I've been on both ends of the deal. I was also
>responsible for insure the integrity of the licensing on contributions being
>ported from the freeware MS flightsim community (I made it an issue too, not
>the project lead. He thought I made a good catch to head off trouble later.)
>Number of releases during my time as a user: ~8
>Number of unbuildable out of the box releases: 1 (point release same day)
>Number or releases that didn't have major problems after build: 7
>Number of platforms supported by app/build system: EIGHT (8) probably more by
>now
>Number of people that came up to me as boothmiester at LWCE with plans to
>shrinkwrap FGFS and sell it without kicking back anything to the community:
>How many zeros in a bajillion?
>Number of people that got bitched out over it: 0
>Reason I walked: I really don't care about planes too much. 9/11 related
>issues. Audio apps on linux reached usable state.
>Reason I started: I contributed because I wanted experience with OSS
>development. I figured I could get a decent job because of propaganda
>from ESR that said "if you know yer shit you don't need a degree". He
>neglected to mention he was talking about to working in the lab at the Uni
>where you dropped out of the CS program.
>
>So when I say things like "generally speaking the audio apps appear to have
>deficient build systems as part of their charm", it's not to be a dick, it's
>because I know things can be better from experience. What I've seen isn't the
>only effective way to do things, but none of this is new to me, so if yer
>gonna challenge me about who's the "true stoner" you better be Bob Frikkin'
>Marleys ghost.
>
>Peace and have a Merry Christmas
>
>
>
Ah yes...JOhn...the "subtle" one! :) Good golly Miss Molly, another
Dennis Miller fan! 8~)
I recently went back to Muse for some testing in the 7.0 release. I had
similar experiences and feelings and had all but walked away...from RG
too for that matter. They were both lacking generally in some area or
another and unreliable. What I was able to do sucessfully was drive
Ardour from Muse or Muse from Ardour via Jack sync. This enabled me to
run complex midi sequences and record new tracks and retain my mixdown
flexibility. It worked very well!!! I also ran a couple with RG. It also
worked. I prefer Muse though because In using softsynths (BTW I was
running a vst synth the whole time) it selects the right instruments for
the right tracks no matter what order they are in.
I think that in my case I try to remember 1 single fact; this is FREE
software. {I'm a pilot in training and FS is bloody expensive!!!} In the
rest of my life nothing "free" has ever been of any real extended use to
me (unless I stole it!! :) {{kidding} I'm a homocidal maniac...not a
bloody robber and thief}} With Linux audio, it has been a real roller
coaster ride emotionally. I look at all the time that has been invested
and wonder if I need my marbles polished! I burn a bunch of time on a
single app or a group of apps, to no real avail, and get itchy fingers
to do a ceremonial burning of the Linux box and just as I'm about to
behead the virgin chiken and take all my clothes off and dab war paint
on my pecker {too much B grade porn?? :) ) I relent and think...patience
is a bitch! But invariably, after I wander off to ponder navel lint
elsewhere, these apps get improvements and the next release is better. I
experienced this with Muse in point of fact. Not holding anyone's hand
here...I would like to see faster progress and some better organization
but I don't feel I have the right to ask for that.
As for the rest of your "rant"...Go for it! Be it this or some other
subject. We are fortunate to live in a society that enables us to do
this...better yet...not have the black suits show up and pop a slug in
the back of our skulls! :) {Been watching too much cloak and dagger
shit} Furthermore, this list is really a bunch of grown ups {with me the
possible exception :) }. Much shit has been flung over many subjects and
everyone to date has acted with a modicum of decorum. {Group hug go's
here} THis group is a very knowledgeable and helpful collection of
diversely experienced people. Again, offering up assistance for free and
for fun.
I too, can drag a subject off track like a Hyena on a carcass. I like
hearing your opinions John as they {IMHO} add one end of the spectrum in
many cases. This gives the rest of the topic the "playing field" as it
were.
Merry Xmas or Happy Hanaghan or shalom or whatever your celebrations may
be to the whole listening group. I do wish you all safe and happy
celebrations in whatever form they take.
R~
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Thu Dec 23 2004 - 19:47:41 EET