Re: [linux-audio-user] How to get good vocal sound

From: studio-64 <fsmith@email-addr-hidden>
Date: Fri Dec 09 2005 - 01:51:55 EET

Nigel Henry wrote:
> On Thursday 08 December 2005 16:37, studio-64 wrote:
>
>>Burkhard Woelfel wrote:
>>
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>>>On Tuesday 06 December 2005 14:35, Dave Phillips wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bill Allen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I've been struggling with a technique problem. How do you get your
>>>>>vocals to sound good? I know that you can't make a silk purse from a
>>>>>sow's ear, but you can make the best of what you've got.
>>>>
>>>>Hi Bill:
>>>>
>>>>You also have to remember that you don't hear yourself the way others
>>>>hear you. I'm not especially fond of my voice, but I know how to hit the
>>>>right notes and other people seem to like it.
>>>>
>>>>The *sound* of a voice can be effective enough as a carrier of
>>>>personality. Bob Dylan is often used as an example of a not-so-beautiful
>>>>voice that's perfectly suited to his material. And it's worth mentioning
>>>>that Dylan does know how to sing (check out Girl From The North Country).
>>>
>>>I'd let somebody else sing first, experiment and learn with his or her
>>>voice. After a bit of training the feeling of embarrassment wrt my own
>>>voice wouldn't be so much of a distraction.
>>>
>>>BTW, a few weeks ago a friend of mine told me that he really liked a
>>>particular song of mine. The voice, he told me, didn't sound like mine at
>>>all. Isn't that strange, I was really happy about that.
>>>
>>>Oh, the miracles of human perception.
>>
>>Strange, this is exactly what happened to me
>>when I sang on my two tracks, thing is, it doesnt sound like me to me!!
>>
>>Bob
>
>
> This is an interesting comment. I find the same when I record speech onto, for
> instance a cassette recorder. I have an accent coming from the Channel
> Islands, but don't notice it when I speak. But playing back my recorded voice
> is very evident. It may have something to do with the very positive feedback
> you get to the brain when you speak or sing, whether your monitoring your
> singing/speech with or without headphones. Whereas, when you listen to
> yourself after making a recording, your brain is not receiving positive
> feedback from your voice. Your brain through your ears is sort of hearing
> these sounds for the first time, from another location, and also some delay
> involved between the recording and the playback. Of course the other quite
> strange behaviour is, when you are listening to music through the headphones
> and speak to someone at the same time, you actually speak louder without
> realising it, indicating again that the brain, by virtue of positive feedback
> from your voice is controlling the level of your voice. A problem noticeable
> with folks who have become hearing impaired, or totally deaf. There's
> obviously a lot of stuff going on that you don't know about when you sing.
> It's only when you listen to the recording that you become aware of it.
>
> Think Karaoke, and you've had a few too many. What would that sound like the
> next day. (That was just for fun). It's been great reading this thread.
> Nigel.
>

Hi Nigel
Good points I have a strong northern accent, which as you say I dont
hear really (I now live on Cardiff so I get a few commnents!)

I dont tend to sing with an accent (I got a few mentions of the doors re
the vocal, again I can't hear the semblance)

Good Ole brain doing it's thing!!

Cheers
Bob

>>>- - Burkhard
>>>
>>>
>>>>>What combination of plugins and settings do you use to get the best
>>>>>sound from vocals particularly in Ardour?
>>>>
>>>>As you say, there are many to choose from. I like Tim Goetze's Versatile
>>>>Plate Reverb, it's easy to control and has some sweet spots that
>>>>complement my voice nicely. I also often use the SC4 compressor
>>>>(pre-fade) and the TAP Scaling Limiter (post-fade) on the master track.
>>>>
>>>>As general advice: Pick an effect, preferably one with only a few
>>>>controls, and learn what each control does to the sound. In the case of
>>>>reverbs, think about the ambience you want to create and make your
>>>>initial settings accordingly. Yes, you'll have to experiment, but IMO
>>>>that's the best way to learn about these things.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I know that this is one of those subjective questions for which the
>>>>>best answer is try it out yourself and find what sounds best, but
>>>>>there are so many plugins (an embarassment of riches), each of which
>>>>>has many settings, that a brute force search of all the combinations
>>>>>would take forever - not to mention that after a while, my poor ears
>>>>>become exhausted with the effort and refuse to hear differences
>>>>>anymore. So what I'm really looking for is good starting points to
>>>>>work from.
>>>>
>>>>It's easy to be overwhelmed: LADSPA, DSSI, VST/VSTi, all provide that
>>>>embarassment of riches. But I figure that the pros don't have the time
>>>>to learn everything about everything, so I don't expect it from myself.
>>>>I think you should plan carefully: think about what sort of sound you
>>>>want to project, think about its characteristics, then start working
>>>>towards it with a minimum number of effects. A little 'verb and some
>>>>judicious compression go a long way towards making a good basic sound, I
>>>>find that for my purposes I use little else. Maybe someday I'll find a
>>>>use for chorus and delays, but they'll probably get used on instruments,
>>>>not on my voice.
>>>>
>>>>A few random tips: Stand when you sing. Use a pop filter (I should
>>>>follow my own advice). Breathe deeply, you can always erase the noise.
>>>>Don't raise your chin when you try to reach notes on the high end of
>>>>your range, it tightens the vocal mechanism and works against your
>>>>attempt. Relax, you won't sing (or play) well with excess tension.
>>>>Consider your input chain, i.e., decent microphones, preamp if
>>>>necessary, good hot signal, etc. Don't record with effects in, you'll
>>>>fool yourself and it will be harder to fix (I like that Ardour forces
>>>>that behaviour). Key your music to complement your available range.
>>>>
>>>>WRT planning: Do you want to recreate the sound of a small group playing
>>>>in a bar ? Or a big band performing in a concert hall ? A rock band
>>>>playing an auditorium ? A jazz quartet in your living room ? Each of
>>>>these scenarios has some salient characteristics that you should try to
>>>>describe and understand in relation to your selected effects. Try
>>>>analyzing the vocal sound on some of your favorite recordings in the
>>>>same manner.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, you have to study up on some terminology, but you don't have to
>>>>become a DSP engineer. That's what we have Steve Harris here for anyway.
>>>>;-) And don't worry about understanding everything right away. It's
>>>>enough to know what a compressor does, the rest you'll learn by fiddling
>>>>with settings and *listening* to the results. For instance, I use the
>>>>SC4 compressor but I'm still sort of blank about exactly what the knee
>>>>radius does. Always more to learn. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>One combination that I like is GVerb to get depth and L/C/R Delay to
>>>>>get width. Even with those two getting the settings right takes time.
>>>>>For comunication, I've included a jack rack with some settings I've
>>>>>found that work OK. I would love your critiques and suggestions for
>>>>>other setups.
>>>>
>>>>GVerb is more complex than I'd advise for a start, but it is a fine
>>>>effect and definitely worth learning. Have you tried Freeverb or any of
>>>>the other 'verbs from the LADSPA collection ? The TAP reverb is also
>>>>superfine (with presets!), but again I'd suggest something even simpler.
>>>>
>>>>If you really have problems with intonation and pitch acuity you can
>>>>always try fixing it in the mix with a pitch shifter plugin and Ardour's
>>>>automation control, but that's getting elaborate. You can also try that
>>>>infamous vocal "fixer" from Antares, but I don't know if it will run
>>>>under any of the current support systems for VST under Linux. It costs
>>>>$$ though, and frankly at that point I'd suggest singing lessons.
>>>>
>>>>You can also use Ardour's excellent editing tools to correct small (and
>>>>not so small?) errors in timing. A bit tedious, but worth the effort.
>>>>
>>>>I listen a lot to the music made by other members of this list. I love
>>>>the sound of Pete Bessman's F4, I'd like to know how he got it. I'm also
>>>>fond of The Girls, their material is great and their singing is perfect
>>>>for it. I like the overall sound they achieve, though it's quite
>>>>different from my aims. And I'd commit heinous and unconscionable acts
>>>>just to be able to play and sound like Steve Doonan. Lots to be learned
>>>
>>>>from the folks using the same software (more or less). So many different
>>>
>>>>genres are represented at http://lam.fugal.net, it's a terrific
>>>>resource: if you like a particular piece, you can just write to the
>>>>composer and ask how s/he did it.
>>>>
>>>>Well, there's my contribution to the thread. HTH. :)
>>>>
>>>>Best,
>>>>
>>>>dp
>>>
>>>- --
>>>
>>>
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>
>

-- 
             Bearmusic
             hearmymusic.co.uk <http:www.hearmymusic.co.uk>
Received on Fri Dec 9 08:15:10 2005

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