Re: [LAU] [OT] Help with mixing and mastering?

From: Justin Smith <noisesmith@email-addr-hidden>
Date: Sat May 09 2009 - 19:33:40 EEST

On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 8:06 AM, James Stone <jamesmstone@email-addr-hidden> wrote:
> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@email-addr-hidden> wrote:
>>> I had a quick mess around with a bus with TAP reverb, and only 1
>>> reverb.. It gave the track a more "live" sound to my ears - more
>>> real maybe, but lacking some of the dynamics of a studio
>>> recording.. any idea where I am going wrong?
>>A
>> Absolutely impossible for me to tell from a simple email. Possibly you
>> are expecting too much at this point in the process? Maybe it's real.
>> We can talk through it, for weeks. I like this stuff. It hardly gets
>> discussed around here. I am all for more.
>
> That's really great. Thanks for taking the time with this.
>
>> OK, breaking it down, how does the room compare to your studio
>> experience?
>
> More bunker-ish, less studio-like! Room has reflective concrete walls,
> I am using the PA mixer to mix the mics, Although turned down very
> low, there is also the PA output coming back into the room!! (is there
> a way around this without buying my own mixing board?? - I guessed
> that disconnecting the speakers from the PA might not be very
> advisable for the health of the amplifier??)
>
>> How do the mics compare?
>
> I have a condenser mic (Samson C01) which I could not use because of
> the feedback from the PA. Everything was recorded with 1 or 2 Shure
> sm58s
>
> Don't assume that inexpensive
>> mics will give an inexpensive sound. Don't assume that any personal
>> inexperience means you must do worse than an experienced studio tech.
>> But do understand it's harder for you at home to approach the results
>> you'll get recording at Electric Ladyland with someone who's made 100
>> albums. Just keep at it.
>>
>> As for reverbs, they all sound different and it really takes some
>> experimentation to find ones that you like. Jumping ahead, I head a
>> LOT of things going on in your studio recording. If you're trying to
>> duplicate that in the work you're doing at home then that will take
>> some work to write down what the major components are in the sound and
>> then working on each one , one by one.
>>
>>>
>>> How about compression? Is it OK to run 2 compressors in parallel
>>> like the C* and Satan Maximizer, or is it just a waste of
>>> resources?
>>
>> Well, I'd want to ask why you're using a compressor? I have a *strong*
>> impression why, listening to the mp3, but I don't know what your
>> current recording sounds like. (It is different, correct?)
>>
>> My initial guess, and it's just a guess, is that you my be falling
>> prey to the two things most people do :
>>
>> 1) tracking WAY too loud.
>> 2) Using boost instead of cut in your EQ.
>
> Yes. I think you are right here.
>
>>
>>
>> OK, this girl can sing, and I really shouldn't call her a girl 'cause
>> everything about her sound was full grown woman. Great voice. Sexy.
>> Confident. I did find myself wishing she really got edgy or even a bit
>> mean somewhere in the mix, but that can be in some other song. Loved
>> the line about lemon bitters. The playing was competent and fit the
>> song well. Very present. Not compressed. The engineer used positioning
>> tricks, not volume, to help bring the guitars forward at different
>> times. Chris Isaak comes to mind for me.
>>
>> The overall tracking here sounds pretty clean to me, but the mix
>> doesn't. It's WAY too loud on my system. It must be 6-9db louder than
>> anything else I compared it with. Maybe that's just the way the mp3
>> got made. Keep in mind that it's VERY important to make comparisons at
>> the same volume. I hear a lot of clipping and clicking, even when I
>> turn it down, so that's not good at all.
>
> Hmm.. I certainly heard some clicks that were there from the original
> studio recording (on the vocal track IIRC). These have been made
> louder by the mixing/mastering process. Is there anything that can be
> done about these kinds of problems (assuming it's not possible to
> re-record a better version)?
>
>> I get the impression that your first issue is tracking.
>
> Definitely, but I have to do the best I can with less than ideal
> equipment - the main problem being how to mix down to 2 tracks to
> record without a mixer that is not the PA!
>
> I do also have a cheap microphone amp - so I could make single mic
> recordings without using the PA, but this seems less than ideal for
> drums!?
>
>> To me compressors are things I don't use until I have a reason (read
>> problem) to use them. Note that most of my stuff is more natural
>> jazz/rock/pop. I've done a couple of Big Band CDs for friends. Live
>> Big Band is tough and compressors there were necessary during tracking
>> to get it on disk. Electronica could be very different.
>>
>> Barry's Satan whatever is to help create a specific sound. That's
>> fine. It might be added later, or used during tracking. Whatever gets
>> you the sound on the track you are looking for.
>>
>> Generally speaking reverb is for me something I try to hold off using
>> at all until the MIX gets underway. The longer I listen dry the
>> happier I generally am when I finally add it.
>>
>> I suppose what I'm saying as I run out of energy (I'm sick, bummer for
>> me) is that I think you should really focus now on tracking your
>> guitar or recording her vocal, and getting just that track to have a
>> good sound. I understand that sometimes vocalist require reverb to do
>> their job, but as the engineer you want to focus on how the voice
>> sounds. Send the reverb to her headphones, not your speakers as much
>> as possible, Are you capturing what she sounds like? Is it technically
>> good. Play with mic distance, different breath screens, different
>> mics. Sit in the room with her while she sings, assuming you're not
>> using a booth. Ask her what she thinks of her sound. In my experience
>> finding something that works at the track level leads to better mixes,
>> and better mixes lead to easier mastering.
>>
>> And, cut, cut, cut, not boost.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>
> Fantastically useful!
>
> One thing I was considering, if you are amenable, is to post both
> songs in their raw (ardour) form - the first (professional-ish) one
> was done in protools, but I have imported individual audio tracks into
> ardour and have got pretty much the same sequence as far as I can
> tell. The second has all the tracking problems I mentioned - bass
> guitar for example, which was recorded by micing the amp in the
> low-budget version has some boom where it hits the resonant frequency
> of one of the nearby toms! Drums (although recorded with 2 mics only
> has one track as the mixer/PA had no pan function!) I would really
> appreciate it if you could listen to the raw form and then say how you
> would approach them (could repost the mixed versions if you have the
> time?) I would find this really educational, but I realise it is
> asking quite a lot, so I am happy either way.
>
> James
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user@email-addr-hidden
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression
that running a PA with no speakers is in no way harmful. It is similar
to having an electric outlet without anything plugged into it, your
real danger is too heavy a current drain (ie. sticking a fork in the
electric socket, or a low impedance speaker in a speaker jack that
cannot handle that low and impedance).
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user@email-addr-hidden
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Received on Sat May 9 20:15:04 2009

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sat May 09 2009 - 20:15:04 EEST