Re: [LAU] ASCAP Assails Free-Culture, Digital-Rights Groups

From: drew Roberts <zotz@email-addr-hidden>
Date: Sat Jul 03 2010 - 05:02:43 EEST

On Friday 02 July 2010 19:42:03 Hartmut Noack wrote:
> Am 02.07.2010 13:49, schrieb drew Roberts:
> > On Friday 02 July 2010 04:21:18 Hartmut Noack wrote:
> >> Ideas shall be free and in music they are actually. Actual work shall be
> >> attributed and the person, who did the work shall get a
> >> compensation/reward for the work.
> >
> > This is where it breaks down. You don't get paid for your work unless
> > someone agrees to pay you.
>
> OK, yes: "reward" is the word if money changes hands. Maybe I should be
> more specific. last year I worked for about 60h to record a song that is
> 7min long. I choosed to release it CC BY SA because seeing the song
> spreading and some 1000 people listening to it seemes quite some reward
> to me. I can do so because:
>
> 1.) I made some money writing about working with the software we made
> the song with.
>
> 2.) The other guitar-player in the song agreed to release the tune that
> way.
>
> 3.) I cut the time I make music to have time to do other things some
> people agree to pay me for ;-)

Sure. I am involved in some recording efforts right now that should end up
being released BY-SA. There is a temporal black hole hanging out nearby it
seems. Part of this long time is likely due to everyone's (or just about
everyone's) lack of experience in a recording studio. So we can't really
properly charge all of this time to the cost of making the recordings as some
should properly be charged to our educations.
>
> > Some people get hired to be a fisherman. Some people pay for the
> > opportunity to go out and fish. Some people just go out and fish. They
> > may each put in the same number of hours in a day.
>
> This is a very very complicated matter. Only 3 hints on how I think
> about fishing:
>
> - Supertrawlers/Industrial fishing
> - Marine Life census: http://www.coml.org/
> - Piracy (the kind with speedboats and machine-guns that is...)

Sure. I could have chosen some other activity that is practiced for various
purposes. Fishing is just a fairly big part of our lives here in the Bahamas.
Our soil is very poor.
>
> If we really take it only as a metaphor it is still linked to social
> issues. Some can afford to go fishing just for fun, even if they have to
> pay for, others make little money fishing all day and do not care that
> much about elegance, the joy of hunting and much less about how many
> fish will survive to be available for coming generations. A single
> blue-finned tuna can be sold for more then 100.000 USD so there is
> fishing and there is fishing.
>
> In all cases one needs the ressources to do it: time and money that is.
>
> >> "doing one thing for some time and having no time to do something else
> >> in the same time".
> >
> > But they don't each get paid. Some actually pay. Some get paid. With
> > some, no money changes hands.
> >
> > But, if you don't get hired to make music and ensure your pay before you
> > make the music. You can make it and hold on to it yourself until you get
> > paid. If it is difficult to do that, that is life in a free world. Asking
> > for chains to be put upon everyone else to make this easier for a
> > musician is asking too much. Especially when the chains already in place
> > are so burdensome and yet still not good enough.
>
> In this I agree.
>
> The chains in use today are anachronistic and more a burden than
> something helpful. But still creators shall have the right to choose how
> their work is spreading.

I disagree that they should have this right. That they do legally now is one
thing. That this is natural and not artificial is another. I also disagree
that comedians should have the right to choose how and where their jokes are
repeated. I do not agree that we should have water cooler police.

> Even if it is the old bad way, they choose and
> that choice should be respected.

Personally I choose not to respect the decision of people who choose to exert
this control over others except to keep their works Free via a copyleft play.
That is not to say that I break the law or encourage others to do so. So
while obeying the law I have no respect for the decision made and my respect
for the people involved is lessened by their decision.
>
> To break the rules will not change them. It will only provide assertions
> for more enforcement, more control, more trouble and less progress for
> everyone.

Well, while I choose to obey the rules and make a Free and copyleft play to
work towards a counterbalance, I think history has example that tend to argue
against your thought being universally true.
>
> Who wants to break the old system of ASCAP, GEMA and the like should
> promote better alternatives.

+1 Agree.

> And such alternatives will only be
> powerfull enough to break the old ways if they can persuade creators to
> use them.

+1 Agree. I actually got into doing BY-SA stuff as thanks for all the GPL
stuff I enjoy and the fact that I don't enjoy programming as much as I once
did and don't do what I consider my fair share of GPL stuff.

> Radiohead made much more money with the nearly free downloads
> of In Rainbows(1) than they ever made with an album released the old way.
> ThatÅ› some persuation I'd say ;-)

Yes, and it could likely have done just as well as a BY-SA play without the
need for an NC play.
>
> But of course they get all the download-donations because they where a
> big industry-act already.

W do have a lot of experimenting and documenting to do for each other.

> So a new and better system should also provide
> ways to make artists that release freely heared worldwide.

Care to join in and help with the FreeMusicPush?

http://freemusicpush.blogspot.com/

> Big concerts,
> videoclips, airplay etc etc etc.
> And payment to allow them to work fulltime, with adeaquate equipment....

One thing I would like to see for those that want it. It should be obvious
that some don't is for people with the requisite skills to be able to earn a
decent living making Free Music for the rest of us. I really don't care if a
system we discover together that allows this allows any in that new system to
achieve huge wealth. If it does, fine, but if it doesn't, I would not
consider that to be a defect.
>
> best regs
>
> HZN
>
> 1: man, was I disappoited by In Rainbows, I did not download but bought
> it Vinyl, listened trice or so and then put it on my "stuff to sell at
> ebay"-shelf....

all the best,

drew
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Received on Sat Jul 3 08:15:02 2010

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