Re: [LAU] LV2, DSSI and the future of plugins

Am 14.01.2011 12:32, schrieb Louigi Verona:
> Just to add a bit of an insight as a person who basically gave up Linux
> Audio almost entirely due to the lack of plugins.
>
> The problem, in my opinion, is not in the format itself. The way I see it,
> there are 3 major problems, in no particular order:
> 1. Lack of documentation and tools that would ease development for LV2 and
> JACK support.
>
> I could, without being a programmer, put together an audio program or even a
> basic plugin when on Windows. On Linux I couldn't even get started - it is
> very complex programming and even setting up JACK is not very simple at all.
> Of course, these are the words of the non-programmer, however, it does say
> something. Besides, I am not the only one pointing out the lack of
> documentation and tools for rapid development. A JACK library that would
> allow to setup JACK support in an application easily, like JACK_Init() would
> be great, but atm it is not even close to that.
>
> Of course, this point is the weakest point I bring up, I am understand that
> as a non-programmer I might not make sense here.
>
> 2. Most good plugins on Win and Mac are not just proprietary, they are
> commercial and their producers offer them for pretty high prices.
>
> It seems to me that most serious VST and VSTi programmers are ready to go
> into audio development only if they are sure they get paid handsomely. At
> least, on Linux we have Zyn and now also Phasex, two only serious VSTi-like
> synths, which get ported all around, while in the VSTi world the amount of
> synths of such quality and options is more than 2. In fact, much more. Many
> serious DAWs come bundled with 2-3 of them at the very least and come with a
> dozen of standard effects like Delay, Reverb, Flanger, Chorus, Phaser,
> Compressor, EQ, usually of pretty decent quality. On Linux Audio I have
> difficulty finding a reverb and delay that suit me, CALF being the closest
> to a good delay.
>
> I don't know if money is the only factor, but it is very much on the
> surface, the difference in the offerings.
>
> Also, there is a whole bunch of decent freeware VST plugins, but as far as I
> understand this very much depends on what I said in problem 1 - I know
> several people personally who had made pretty cool effects and synths of a
> level that is a rarity on Linux, assisted by plugin making tools that ease
> the development a lot, including GUI development.
>
>
> 3. Not a lot of people in the Linux Audio world seem to care much about that
> particular type of music that requires a lot of synths and fancy effects.
>
> On my site I wrote an article which many people have probably read, as I
> referred to it often, which makes a distinction between two types of music
> from a production point of view (
> http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projects&s=writings&t=linux&a=linux_types).

While I can understand you wish to sort out, what it is, when we talk
about differnt types of music, I think, your definitions do not
adeaqately reflect the reality.

It is true, that there is a lot of music produced in the way you
describe as "acoustic". In fact, this "acoustic" music is probably a
share higher than 50% of the music, that is being recorded actually.

But:

I own a copy of a Led Zeppelin Songbook from the early 1970ies and its
preface states: "Led Zeppelin is whithout any doubt one of the most
influencing groups in electronic music today."

While I do not remember the words exactly by now I am absolutely
positive about the term "electronic music" in that book.

>
> It seems to me that this, by far, is the most important reason Linux
Audio
> does not have a lot of plugins - most musicians (many of them being
> developers at the same time) here simply do not need them. They
record their
> guitars and vocals and are pretty happy.

In fact most musicians, that play more or less "acoustic music" by your
definition also take advantage of effects far beyond dynamics/EQ, they
play guitartracks to accompany 4 layers of synths and vice versa. They
play their acoustic instruments, then they edit the recordings and loop
them or make them samples and play them using a sequencer.

Many rock-productions are based on drums from a sequencer etc etc

So I am quite sure, that most musicians on the list(and out there in
general) will be very very interested in the development of tools that
may or may not be primarily made for "electronic music". Look at the
bounty users have set on ardour.org for including a MIDI-sequencer.

I myself use to use the grid-snapping in ardour extensively though not a
extensively as others, that use to cut each and every track with rhythm
ferret before doing anything else...

And I use many strange and fancy effects and I automate them wildly
sometimes.

> Again, I think that this is the main reason. If a lot of people would be
> here who need a delay plugin with many options or a serious reverb or
> whatever - it would pop up.

True in a way but: many people may be fine with the delay-plugins that
are available for now. I agree, that it would e nice to have a more
komplex delay with bpm-recognition etc but I can do a lot of fancy stuff
with the ones available now and I guess many othes will be fine with
these also.
So while you say: "a better delay for Linux is a must-have!" I tend to
say such a plugin would be a nice-to-have.

> Atm - I don't get a sense of that need. And last
> year when I was very actively researching what Linux Audio can offer, it
> seemed to be I was the only person who talked about electronic music and the
> need for fancy effects. Obviously, I am not the only one in question, but I
> am part of a very minor group, that's for sure.

Minor or not, Linux Audio should be capable for every aspect of modern
music-production.

At the other hand: it is actually, though not that convenient and
intuitive as with the most sophisticated tools for Windows/Mac.

But there is a differnce between inconvenient and impossible.

>
> Cheers!
>

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Received on Fri Jan 14 16:15:08 2011