Subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: AKAI sample CD-ROM disk format specification
From: Jay Ts (jay_AT_toltec.metran.cx)
Date: Tue Dec 19 2000 - 17:28:57 EET
David,
First of all, thanks very much for your quick reply to my inquiry.
Your message seems to indicate that there is a possibility that AKAI
will supply me with a filesystem spec if I let you know in what ways
I intend to make use of it. That information is included below.
I had downloaded and quickly read through the S5000/S6000 sampler
manual, but did not catch on to the fact that AKAI is moving to
FAT16/FAT32. This is interesting, and causes me to more seriously
consider the possibility of owning an AKAI sampler myself in the future.
Anyway, the issue is not so much about the samplers as it is the "AKAI
format" (S1000-S3000) CDs that are published by several sample CD vendors,
and AKAI too (correct?). The issue is that these CDs have become (if
I understand correctly) the dominant format, which is something that
is greater than the AKAI sampler line, or for that matter, any
single sampler product. In your message, you wrote of the FAT16/FAT32
disk format as a non-proprietary format, when in fact it is a proprietary
standard that Microsoft has documented well enough for it to "slip out
of the cage" and become of more general use than just with Windows. I
don't think it hurts Microsoft that AKAI is using "their" format! And it
certainly makes it a lot easier for AKAI, Apple and Linux users to integrate
with Windows systems - I can read and write to my Windows partition from
Linux, and it's a very nice feature that allows me to run Windows as
well as Linux here. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't run Windows at all.
It is with this in mind that I reiterate that I think it is in AKAI's
best interest to be a little more open with regards to the AKAI CD-ROM
format. And if you're switching to FAT16/FAT32 anyway, why do you care
so much about protecting old technology?
My intent here is not at all to injure AKAI's sales or the success of the
AKAI sampler line (because I have learned by experience that a computer
is no replacement for a dedicated sampler!) but is more in the direction
of allowing owners of AKAI format sample CDs to be able to put them to
more general use. This will help to stimulate the sales of those CDs
(and make them more valuable to a wider audience), and I think it will
help stimulate sales of AKAI samplers as well, because there are many
applications where a dedicated hardware sampler is much preferable over,
for example, any software synthesizer.
On a purely psychological/marketing note, if people have a bunch of AKAI
format CDs already, then it is a "no brainer" to by an AKAI sampler with
which to to play them. And there are many very rational (logical) reasons
as well, of course.
For example, it is (if I understand correctly) fairly common for musicians
to compose music using a sequencer and simple software synth, and later
switch to playback from a hardware synth or sampler for the final recording.
(In order to get the best sound, with no glitches and with minimal consumption
of the computer's CPU.) If the same samples (from the sample CD) were used
in the "rough draft" compositional stage, it would be much easier for
the composer/musician to create in a "what you hear is what you get"
development environment.
Anyway, those are my general thoughts regarding the matter. I am not yet
totally crystal clear on my *specific* plans, but for now, the idea is twofold:
1. To be able to use AKAI format CDs on Linux, having the ability
to read them and extract data and translate the samples to
other formats that may be required by software that does
not directly read AKAI CDs. In other words, a program that
works much like the Windows CDxtract application.
2. To be able to read samples from AKAI format CDs directly into
software synthesis programs and perhaps other audio applications.
(As does Gigasampler, Unity DS-1, Reaktor, and I suppose other
Windows software synths as well.)
I don't know if you are aware of this, but since I last wrote to you,
I've learned that there have been partially successful efforts to
reverse-engineer the AKAI format. I would also be tempted to take
this approach, but it does not promise to allow me to implement the
quality of service for the end user that I intend. And it also makes
AKAI look bad, because people cannot help get a negative impression from
using the AKAI CDs that "don't work right", "contain junk" or otherwise
lack the utility that they would have if fully they were supported.
If there is some way either "we" (Linux developers) or I (just myself)
can get along with AKAI, and fully support AKAI format sample CDs on
Linux, I surely would be interested in exploring the possibility further.
As I've probably made very clear by now, a fully open spec would be
preferable to just about everybody on this end. I could get selfish
and just ask for the spec for my own use, but I'd rather create a level
playing field that includes everyone. I'd rather have a little piece
of a huge (and growing) pie, than have a whole, tiny pie to myself.
However if that is not possible, I am willing to consider other methods.
Let me know what works for you.
Sincerely,
Jay Ts
jayts_AT_bigfoot.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Jay Ts,
>
> Thanks for your e-mail. I understand the points you have made, but the
> one thing you did not cover in your e-mail is exactly what you plan on
> doing with the specification. Akai is not opposed to providing
> assistance to developers, but we do like to know their plans since it
> will certainly have an affect on our products.=20
>
> That said, there is really no reason to release the disk format. Akai
> typically includes access to almost every parameter of a product via a
> combination of protocols.=20
>
> To be honest, I don't see Akai releasing any proprietary information
> into the public domain. In regards to your question about moving to a
> published spec, we have already done that. The S5000 and S6000 samplers
> do not use a proprietary format, but instead support FAT16 and FAT32
> formats. I expect this trend to gradually continue with future products.
>
> Best regards,
> David Whittle
>
> ******************************************************
> David Whittle - Product Manager
> Akai Musical Instrument Corporation
> 4710 Mercantile Drive
> Fort Worth, TX 76137
> phone: 817-831-9203 ext. 146 fax: 817-222-1490
> e-mail: david_AT_akaipro.com
> web site: www.akaipro.com
> ******************************************************
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jay Ts [mailto:jay_AT_toltec.metran.cx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:58 AM
> > To: David Whittle
> > Cc: linux-audio-dev_AT_ginette.musique.umontreal.ca
> > Subject: AKAI sample CD-ROM disk format specification
> >=20
> >=20
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > I am writing to you as a result of the response I received=20
> > from a member
> > of your technical support department (Nick Kenney) that I've included
> > below. He informed me that the format for AKAI sample CDs is
> > considered proprietary information by AKAI, and that s published
> > specification is not available.
> >=20
> > I hope you won't mind this detour ... I feel it's important if I start
> > out with a statement of purpose. Ideally, I would love to see AKAI
> > publish the specification for the format of the AKAI sample=20
> > CD-ROMs used
> > with the AKAI S1000-S5000 professional samplers.
> >=20
> > Please do not get the wrong idea; my desire is not at all a=20
> > selfish one,
> > and in fact, I perceive it as being in your company's best interest to
> > publish the spec. AKAI's dominant position in the market would not
> > be hurt by an opened spec, and quite to the contrary, a greater
> > preponderance of AKAI CD-ROM products and equipment that=20
> > works seamlessly
> > with AKAI products can only server to increase the value and utility
> > of AKAI's offerings on the market.
> >=20
> > As a further aside, I've watched the happenings in the=20
> > computer industry
> > as a small, research-grade operating system (UNIX) slowly but surely
> > become a dominant force in the industry, partly due to a good=20
> > technical
> > design, but mostly due to its portability (device=20
> > independence), availability
> > of source code, published interface specifications, and=20
> > finally, international
> > standards. More specifically, I've watched a small startup=20
> > computer company
> > (Sun Microsystems) use a technology they developed and for=20
> > which they published
> > the specification (TCP/IP-based NFS networking) create an=20
> > open systems market
> > that within a few years toppled the long-standing IBM=20
> > proprietary monopoly.
> > Nowadays, IBM is a company that is using Linux as a fully-embraced,
> > strategic operating system. (Quite a turnaround, yes?) =20
> > Meanwhile, the Open
> > Source Linux OS is gaining on the new monopoly (Microsoft),=20
> > and has already
> > dominated Windows NT/2000 in some areas that Microsoft=20
> > considers important
> > to them.
> >=20
> > I'm mentioning this because the way it looks to me, AKAI is now very
> > much in the situation that IBM used to be in. AKAI holds=20
> > onto proprietary
> > information (the sample CD format) in a way that is in it's=20
> > own interest,
> > but not in the best interest of the consumer or the market as a whole.
> > History has proven many times over that although a=20
> > proprietary approach
> > may yield short-term profits, that this approach is not a successful
> > long-term strategy. It will only continue to work until=20
> > someone decides
> > to create an alternative that is directly associated with a public
> > interface specification.
> >=20
> > As I hope you can be aware, I've been keeping tabs on the=20
> > development of
> > Unix, Open Systems, Linux and Open Source software for a long=20
> > time. Judging
> > from what has happened in the past, and the current direction=20
> > and momentum,
> > I expect that Linux will continue to become a more dominant force as a
> > desktop system. (In case you are not aware, there are=20
> > estimates from well-
> > respected industry analysts that there are now about as many=20
> > desktop Linux
> > systems as Macs, and that Mac popularity will be overtaken by=20
> > Linux with
> > the next few years.) Along with this, I also expect Linux to=20
> > emerge as
> > a preferred platform for running audio and music applications, and may
> > overtake Windows at some point. I will go so far as to say that this
> > may happen easily within the next 10 years, and maybe a lot less.
> >=20
> > I am mentioning the above because I want you to be clear that Linux is
> > far from being a toy operating system, and that it is very worthy of
> > your attention.
> >=20
> > In light of all this, I have a few questions:
> >=20
> > 1. Would AKAI consider publishing the spec for AKAI format sample CDs?
> >=20
> > 2. If not that, would AKAI consider moving towards a published spec
> > in the future, and in the meantime work with Linux and other
> > Open Source developers to allow support for AKAI sample CDs in
> > Open Source software?
> >=20
> > 3. If not that, is there any way that I and/or Linux software
> > developers can obtain the AKAI sample CD-ROM spec? And if so, how?
> >=20
> > Sincerely,
> >=20
> > Jay Ts
> > jayts_AT_bigfoot.com
> >=20
> >=20
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------
> > Forwarded message:
> > > From fetchpop Tue Dec 19 02:58:14 2000
> > > Subject: RE: CD-ROM disk format specification
> > > Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:07:35 -0600
> > > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > > Message-ID:=20
> > <3B9FD5B37EFC1E48A69834B9F9C1411B0373FF_AT_netserv1.amicglobal.com>
> > > content-class: urn:content-classes:message
> > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4417.0
> > > Thread-Topic: CD-ROM disk format specification
> > > Thread-Index: AcBng3GixvE1eExLSQ2jtGedqN4jSwBuhspQ
> > > From: "AKAI Support" <akaipro_support_us_AT_akaipro.com>
> > > Sender: "Nick Kenney" <nick_AT_akaipro.com>
> > > To: "Jay Ts" <jayts_AT_bigfoot.com>
> > > X-UIDL: 28e83ee428fed4d1945179ef4d380dc0
> > >=20
> > > Hello,
> > >=20
> > > The information you have requested is proprietary and is=20
> > not available
> > > for distribution. You will need to contact our Product Manager at
> > > dwhittle_AT_akaipro.com to request this info.
> > >=20
> > > Best Regards,
> > > AKAI Product Support
> > >=20
> > > AKAI Musical Instrument Corp.
> > > (http://www.akaipro.com)
> > > Phone: 817-831-9203
> > > Fax: 817-222-1490
> > > E-mail: akaipro_support_us_AT_akaipro.com
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jay Ts [mailto:jayts_AT_bigfoot.com]
> > > > Posted At: Saturday, December 16, 2000 11:11 AM
> > > > Posted To: Nick
> > > > Conversation: CD-ROM disk format specification
> > > > Subject: CD-ROM disk format specification
> > > >=3D20
> > > >=3D20
> > > > Hi,
> > > >=3D20
> > > > Has AKAI published a specification for the format of
> > > > AKAI CD-ROMs (and hard disk)?
> > > >=3D20
> > > > I am writing some software for Linux, and would like
> > > > to have it read and write AKAI format CD-ROMs and perhaps
> > > > hard disks. The idea is to allow the exchange of data
> > > > between AKAI samplers and computers running Linux, as well
> > > > as to generally allow the expansion of the "AKAI universe"
> > > > into the Linux realm.
> > > >=3D20
> > > > Please let me know if you have a copy of the spec online,
> > > > or if there is some other way to get it.
> > > >=3D20
> > > > - Jay Ts
> > > > jayts_AT_bigfoot.com
> > > >=3D20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>
>
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