Subject: RE: [linux-audio-dev] Re: image problem [was Re: [Alsa-devel] help for a levelmeter]
From: Mark Knecht (markknecht_AT_attbi.com)
Date: Sun Oct 20 2002 - 20:32:57 EEST
David,
[Embedded comments at the end also.]
I've been staying on the sidelines of this thread up 'til now. I'd like
to add a users' perspective. I am not a programmer at all. I come at this
totally from the point of view of a user. A little bit of this post might
sound like a low-end rant, but mostly it's an opinion of someone that's used
tools like this and spent a lot of time around other folks that do also.
And, as always, the opinions are mine alone.
I personally think it's a bit too early to start talking outside of an
interest group like this. It's not too early to figure out what we're going
to say, and figure out how we're interested in saying it, but to go out an
bring people here before there is a toolset that really works is just asking
people to be beta testers. If we're doing that, then let's be honest when we
tell them.
There is a really GREAT reason for people to start migrating somewhere
though - 96KHz support. Everyone is worried about getting trapped in a
close, expensive, buggy solution when they more to 96K. DigiDesign is really
messing with the semi-pro guys. They know it, but they don't know what to
do. That's why I'm here.
I did start talking to people in the Pro Tools area about Ardour and too
many people showed up that didn't know Linux, (like me!) couldn't fix the
problems they were having, and went away saying Ardour has nothing to offer.
They are not right, but they say these things and it turns other people off.
I don't want to see that happen. It takes too long to recover.
When speaking about tools from a users' perspective, be he/she a
professional, a semi-pro or a home enthusiast like me, the thing that really
matters is whether the tools do the job. I think your list below points up
the one totally glaring problem with the Linux tools that needs to be
address long before you go push people to look at this work. That problem is
the lack of MIDI integrated to work with audio. Today we have some great
MIDI apps coming along (Muse, Rosegarden, Midi Mountain) Ardour on the audio
side, soft synths galore (although they are not all usable in an integrated
way yet) loads of interesting plugins and jack to allow the audio to talk
between apps. But, unfortunately, there's no way I know of yet to talk about
all of the Alsa apps to users who want to replace Pro Tools, which is where
I'm coming from. This needs to be handled in a convincing way before talking
to people, or the negative press will be very hard to overcome.
Here comes my little rant. The 'problem' here is that Linux apps are
developed by very intelligent, well meaning, technical people who work on
what they want to work on and not necessarily what's wanted and needed by
the 'marketplace'. I think that some real program management is required.
Look at what the market wants and needs, (audio, MIDI, soft synths, plugins,
scoring, automation, etc.) write it down somewhere and then do an honest
assessment of where Linux audio solutions are. If we have what the users
need, then we talk. If we don't, then we put a program in place to make that
stuff happen fast, so that when we do have it we can talk. Unfortunately,
this would require the developers to respond more like work and less like a
hobby. I don't know that they want to do that. <EOR>
Beyond that, we need to handle the installation stuff much more cleanly.
PlanetCCRMA is doing a great job of that for the Redhat platform. I know
that many people wouldn't want to be forced into a distribution long term,
but in the beginning many people who will come and try out this stuff won't
be Linux users and should be directed towards a COMPLETE solution. Currently
I think the Planet is the best I know of.
As I don't want you to think I'm negative on what's going on here, I
think there are MANY things that Linux could offer, but isn't even trying to
talk about yet. Things like:
1) Real multi-processor support
2) Distributed processing where different apps are on multiple machines all
working together
3) Remote access - all the application computers are in a different room and
one very quiet PC is used in the studio to display their screens. No noise,
but water cooling not required.
4) Much more stable platform. No reboots, no sad Macs, no BSODs.
5) More open hardware support, presuming someone ever makes the multicard
thing understandable by those of us that don't have a PhD. in Alsa.
Anyway, all said, I personally don't think money and bank accounts are
the answer right now, but they may be helpful in the future, and I'd
certainly contribute time and a bit of money to help things move along when
we have a real plan. I just don't think we're thee yet.
Actually, I think we don't even have a plan to have a plan yet, and that
needs to be solved before anything will really work out right.
Thanks for listening. I hope you got this far.
Cheers,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: linux-audio-dev-admin_AT_music.columbia.edu
[mailto:linux-audio-dev-admin_AT_music.columbia.edu]On Behalf Of David
Gerard Matthews
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:02 AM
To: linux-audio-dev_AT_music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: image problem [was Re: [Alsa-devel]
help for a levelmeter]
At this point, I highly doubt that anyone is going to chuck their ProTools
(TM) system in favor
of Linux anytime soon.
[MWK] I'm trying!!!!!!!!!!!!
The thing that could do it is to have some killer apps - 90% of the
functionality of say, Logic would be good enough - with free redistribution.
[MWK] Yep! The caveat is that you have to have the right 90%!
Jack is a very good thing, and once ardour achieves something resembling
stable and truly usable status we'll be close. FreqTweak is brilliant,
especially since it's jack-ified. PD already has Jack support, and a
working version of SC will do wonders.
[MWK] Great examples, but I'm not sure this morning what 'SC' is. However,
not a MIDI app in the bunch yet, as per my comments above.
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