Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: linuxaudio.org

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Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: linuxaudio.org
From: Daniel James (daniel_AT_linuxaudio.org)
Date: Wed Jan 14 2004 - 16:16:24 EET


> there is an argument that once the project has launched, it is
> too late.

Or before it has launched, too early? No one is twisting your arm to
support the project. If it isn't doing valuable work, it won't
survive, since it depends on volunteer input.

> without wider community discussion, the accusation - rightly or
> wrongly - is that it is exactly that: a cabal.

I think you should look for harder targets. Why is it so bad to spend
a few days putting the website together before it's publically
announced? Does no-one on this list get their code in a usable shape
before they announce their projects?

> How can we join
> something that doesnt exist and that we havnt been told about?

If you can find time to criticise something that doesn't exist yet,
perhaps you could answer that one for me.

> So how do i join?

Just ask. At the moment linuxaudio.org is conceived as a
meta-organisation, representing existing projects and companies,
rather than individuals directly. Is there a particular project
you're involved in?

> You need a european sound engineer perhaps.

Without a doubt.

> As you havnt made a case, i couldnt comment on whether the project
> is needed.

Can you wait a day?

> And we are all doing this on our own time...

Not all of us. I run my own studio (Linux based of course), and I also
write for audio and Linux magazines, which I do get paid for. Not a
lot, perhaps, but by contrast the linuxaudio.org role is completely
voluntary. And there are other people who are paid to work on Linux
audio, or with it.

> although i didnt say so, i was referring to the proaudio
> industry, which i view as being quite different.

So there are good corporates and bad corporates? If so, can we make
the bad ones into good ones by working with them on an equitable
basis?

> But the last few months has seen a big increase in corporate
> stakes in linux.

I would say the last few years, but I take your point.

> I beleive that the controversies are only just
> beginning to be felt.

Quite true - I'm hoping we can avoid exactly this kind of problem by
bringing the pro audio industry in from the cold. They're not going
away, and neither are we.

> There has always been disagreement over
> how much their involvement is a good thing.

Consider this - we have dyne:bolic as a member, which is an avowedly
anti-corporate project. So far, Microsoft has not asked to join.

> The main danger for
> me is that commercial pressures inevitably produce systems similar
> to other existing systems aimed at the lowest common denominator.

I don't see that happening in pro audio. Worry about Lindows if you
like.

> > If you check the management
> > boards of organisations like OSDL or CE Linux Forum, you'll
> > notice that libre software projects don't get any representation
> > there at all.
>
> I'm not sure its a fair comparison.

They are industry consortia addressing a particular niche market. OK,
we may not have their funding, but the principle is the same.

> But i'm sorry that you
> dont appreciate the danger that you are alienating people here
> by doing things behind closed doors.

I do appreciate the danger, I just wish some people would actually
wait to see what linuxaudio.org actually is before supporting or
criticising it.

> I cant imagine why you chose
> not to discuss it openly

I did not choose that, I just didn't discuss it in your preferred
forum - which is not the same thing. Actually, I just wanted to make
sure that I was doing the right thing before making a public
announcement, so I asked the LAD members I knew first.

> Dont forget that community
> is what makes linux what it is.

I won't.

> the aims are stated as:
> The aim of the Linuxaudio.org consortium is to
> promote and enable the use of Linux kernel based systems for
> professional audio use.
>
> Thats ok for a press release, but what does it mean in practice?

We'll find out.

> Its way too vague.

I find it clearly describes what I'm trying to do - which part is
vague?

> What exactly are you promoting?

Whatever the members are doing, I suppose.

> Its also a very wide range of companies you have there

Hardly. Which ones aren't involved in Linux audio? We've got audio
hardware, Linux distributions and audio applications represented.

> No offence to these companies, but do i really want Mandrake and
> 4Front speaking for me?

This is your key misconception, and I think Marek's as well. Firstly,
consortium members can only speak for themselves. The consortium as a
whole can only speak for its members. If you don't join, it won't be
speaking for you.

Cheers

Daniel James
Director
http://linuxaudio.org


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