Subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Consortium-p] Re: linuxaudio.org
From: iriXx (m_AT_iriXx.org)
Date: Thu Jan 15 2004 - 02:03:43 EET
cute. and well said, Bob.
just to add my twopennyworth to it all:
this is my growing frustration in trying to bring together FLOSS people
through my work as Copyleftmedia. the harder i try, the more silly
bickering and in-fighting goes on over names, labels etc. i work hard to
try to bring together people from all parts of a community, a community
that could potentially rival the main proprietary firms - but it doesnt,
because we spend all our time shooting ourselves in the foot.
surely we, as advocates of Freedom / Libre-dom, should be the first to
promote that freedom and equality in the way we work together?
its sad to hear this sort of thing happening, and it puts to shame the
hard work that we do. in fact, such bickering is hypocrisy, it is
against the spirit of Free/Libre software itself as it was first set
out. it makes us look like fools.
is it not impossible for us all to pick up on Daniel's great idea, and
get behind it - which will promote the work of each one of us, as well
as FLOSS audio software? is it not possible for us to put aside our
personal agendas and self-promotion? for after all, that's not why we
write FLOSS software.
m~
Bob Ham wrote:
>I thought I'd provide a little dramatisation of what this whole debacle
>looks like to me:
>
><Daniel> LAD_Dude_1: Hey dude, I've got this idea for a group to help
>linux audio developers and corporate interests get along better, what do
>you think?
><LAD_Dude_1> Daniel: Sounds like a good idea.
><Daniel> LAD_Dude_2: What do you think?
><LAD_Dude_2> Daniel: Aye, sounds good. Going to need a web site and
>mailing list and whatnot tho.
><Daniel> Aye, I'll register linuxaudio.org
><Daniel> Mandrake (TM): You interested?
><Mandrake (TM)> Daniel: Definately
><Marek (overhearing)> Daniel: Hey! I was going to do that! You
>bastard!
><Marek> LAD_People: HEY! DANIEL'S STARTED A WHOLE LINUX AUDIO
>DEVELOPER'S CONSORTIUM WITHOUT CONSULTING ANY OF US!
><LAD_Dude_3> WTF?!
><LAD_Dude_4> What a bastard!
><LAD_Dude_5> How dare you!
><Daniel> Hold on a sec, dudes, it doesn't exist yet. I haven't even
>written a web page!
><LAD_Dude_4> What a bastard!
><LAD_Dude_5> How dare you!
>
>To those shouting "bastard!", I say: chill, for the moment at least.
>
>I also provide below a mail I sent to Joern Nettingsmeier before
>christmas. While Daniel's and my ideas differ somewhat in the necessary
>approach; co-operation vs defense, our aim is the same: to help bring
>linux audio software out of bedrooms and into studios while maintaining
>the freedom of that software. It's worth noting that whether or not a
>party is a corporation or a tree hugging hippy (to epitomise the two
>sides of that coin) is irrelevant; the issue is whether or not they
>support free software, or the kind of proprietary software that stifles
>the communities that have developed around places like the
>linux-audio-dev list. I know plenty of tree hugging hippies that are
>more than willing to embrace propietary software, and plenty of
>corporations prepared to stand firm on the principles of software
>freedom.
>
>The mailing list I wanted to create is one that I expect will come to
>exist at linuxaudio.org. The linuxaudio.org site is only the second
>linux audio site I have noted that consistently uses the term "libre" or
>"free" instead of "open source" or "linux" software (the other site
>being AGNULA's; and guess which new consortium they're members of) and
>that goes some way toward allaying any fears I personally have about the
>consortium sucking up to the proprietary software industry.
>
>Anyway, another too-long email to add to the fire, but I hope it might
>dampen rather enflame it.
>
>Bob
>
>-----Forwarded Message-----
>
>
>>From: Bob Ham <rah_AT_bash.sh>
>>To: Joern Nettingsmeier <nettings_AT_folkwang-hochschule.de>
>>Subject: Re: hosting a free-audio-dev list
>>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:08:22 +0000
>>
>>On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 08:34, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bob Ham wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi there,
>>>>
>>>>I was wondering if it would be possible to start a mailing list to
>>>>discuss issues of freedom specifically relating to audio software. I
>>>>know I feel restricted by something like a taboo about free vs
>>>>proprietary discussions on linux-audio-dev. I think a place where that
>>>>kind of discussion was encouraged would be beneficial.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>hmmm. i must confess i'm not sure this is a good idea...
>>>i don't know why you perceive a taboo on lad to discuss such issues -
>>>you are right, this topic is rare, but then, IMNSHO it rarely leads to
>>>productive results :)
>>>
>>>
>>This is the "taboo" that I speak of :) Ie, the view that wooly issues
>>of freedom do little to progress the technical state of the software
>>while introducing extra noise.
>>
>>
>>
>>>my fear with a list like you propose is that it might become an
>>>"advocacy" forum with all kinds of people with not much else to do
>>>sounding off about <your favourite licence here> and getting into all
>>>kinds of flamewars.
>>>
>>>
>>And this extends the taboo :) No, "talking about freedom" does not mean
>>discerning the finer points of freedom from the perspectives of GPL and
>>BSD licenses (at least, not to me.) There are plenty of other forums
>>for that already, eg slashdot.org. What I want to talk about is
>>Steinberg. And Apple. And Microsoft. And other threats to the free
>>audio software community. For that matter, I want a place where the
>>free audio software community can flourish. For *that* matter, I *want*
>>a free audio software community; support for freedom is somewhat soft on
>>LAD. This is the time when it needs to be cemented. Linux (and free
>>software) is moving places and the companies that hang on to the
>>proprietary idea will be throwing their own little microsoft-like
>>wobblies when the time comes. A forum that encourages support against
>>this can be nothing but a good thing in my eyes. The fact that LAD is
>>linux-specific is another issue; freedom is an issue enclosing
>>proprietary OSes and free OSes alike.
>>
>>To take a crystal example, the GMPI group reflects the need for such a
>>community. As far as I know, there is nobody whose express purpose in
>>being involved in GMPI is to represent the interests of software
>>freedom. A place where such advocacy could come from would be a good
>>thing IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>possible for you host a free-audio-dev list?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>if more people on the lists share your view and would like to have such
>>>a list, certainly.
>>>
>>>although i would prefer something like "linux-audio-freedom" or
>>>whatever, to keep things consistent. otoh, if it's not linux and lad
>>>community centered, then i think it should be hosted somewhere else
>>>
>>>
>>The reason for me asking was purely a technical one; you were the first
>>person I thought of when I asked "who can host a free audio developers
>>list?" :) Of course, being in close proximity to linux-audio-dev would
>>be a plus. And free-audio-dev is consistent as well :) Though, if not
>>being linux-specific puts you off, I shall ask elsewhere.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
-- They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.--Benjamin Franklin
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