Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: linuxaudio.org
From: Stonekeeper (stonekeeper_AT_stonekeeper.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Jan 21 2004 - 16:18:36 EET
I'm only a lurker, but I concur with Joern.
-Lea.
On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 14:45, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
> this is a somewhat heated reply, you may want to skip it entirely if you
> have had enough of this thread already...
>
> but since my own efforts are being drawn into the argument now, i feel
> it's time to sound off:
>
> Marek Peteraj wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 11:01, Daniel James wrote:
>
> >>It's true that I did initiate the arrangement whereby the Linux audio
> >>community gets representation at a major UK audio industry trade
> >>show,
> >
> >
> > Suddenly you're now speaking as the representative of the whole Linux
> > audio community. But you're not. Neither am I. The only true
> > representatives of the Linux Audio community are the Linux Audio
> > Developers.
>
> marek, please: it's time to shut up.
>
> i too have been speaking as a representative of the linux audio
> community on various occasions. frank neumann has even been so bold as
> to organize a trade show booth in the name of the linux audio community.
> matthias nagorni is just now and in front of everyone's eyes committing
> the heinous atrocity of organizing a conference in the name of the linux
> audio community.
> none of us has obtained anyone's mandate, none of us has discussed
> everything we do on this list up to the point of consensus.
>
> SO WHAT?????
>
> there is no such thing as a linux audio community, except for *what
> people do*. so daniel is as much part of it as you and i.
> this list is just a list. a means of communication. it's great at times,
> and sometimes it's not. as pointed out before, not even everyone
> interested in linux audio uses it.
>
> nowhere on the whole wide web will you find a clear definition of what
> the linux audio community is and who can speak for it. and you are not
> going to define it either by continous nit-picking at the efforts of others.
>
> linux audio is what people do with it. that's what free software
> communities are about. if somebody tries to put an organisation together
> to provide a new forum for exchange with (shudder ;) commercial
> developers, that can only enrich the community. if it works, great, if
> it fails, so what?
> nobody is going to take all the code away from you (thanks to the gpl -
> chapeau, mr. stallman!), nobody is going to take all the contributors of
> the community away. where is the problem?
>
> there have been some valid points of criticism on how david is
> organizing and presenting his effort. i'm sure these can and should be
> discussed. but there is absolutely and utterly no point in bashing
> peoples' heads in for working free-of-charge towards what they believe
> will be for the good of linux audio.
> be pragmatic: if the linuxaudio.org effort is worth crap, then it's
> going to die a good and honest open-source death. if it prospers, then
> it will add another facet to the linux audio community. but how could it
> really endanger or take away anything that the community already has?
>
>
> the only thing i see endangered here is the atmosphere of mutual respect
> that has been one of the pillars of this mailing list.
>
>
> if you fear fragmentation of the community, well, that too is part of
> the game. projects are forked, forks are healed, projects succeed and
> die, communities form and disperse themselves. no harm in voicing your
> fear of fragmentation, but why attack people and discredit their efforts?
>
>
> excuse me for ranting, but i too have invested a lot of free time *and*
> money to advocate linux audio and the linux audio community. i want to
> continue to do this *as i see fit*, to the best of my knowledge, and i
> certainly do not want to face a stupid public tribunal such as this in
> return for my efforts.
>
> in my view, david first of all deserves a huge cheer for a new idea and
> a lot of work, and then we can discuss the points that were subject to
> criticism.
>
> this whole thread sadly reminds me again of the zynaddsubfx flamewar
> about the weird jesus clause its author had on his website. well, above
> all, imnsho, if some new thing comes with strings attached that do not
> suit you, just ignore it. you haven't lost anything, and nothing is
> being taken away from you. it's an offer, after all.
>
>
> >>on the basis that we will be offering free advice and
> >>information rather than a sales pitch. The organisers have agreed to
> >>give us the stand at cost, which they didn't have to do.
> >
> >
> > So how is that different from LinuxTag or ZKM? Again, what are we trying
> > to promote? The only thing we should promote right now are the Linux
> > Audio applications. Companies have resources to promote themselves. And
> > it makes no sense to promote Linux Audio Users at such event.
> >
> > The problem is - Frank, Joern, Matthias were doing a great job
> > organising events and helping the Linux Audio Developers to promote
> > their open source Linux Audio applications. They never called themselves
> > the directors of LAD.
>
> nor does david. he stepped in as director of linuxaudio.org to get a
> ball rolling. just as matthias and frank "usurped" the role of
> conference organizers. *to*get*something*done* !
>
> if you consider some of his actions bad style, then fine, but show some
> style yourself when offering criticism.
>
> > I see ZKM as a very important event simply because it's growing into a
> > larger conference, an event solely aimed at Linux Audio, an event that
> > will be aimed at both Linux Audio Developers and Linux Audio Users this
> > year. A place where the developers, journalists and music industry can
> > meet each other.
> > I think such an event is much more important than any stand.
>
> both stands *and* meetings are nice and have become and important part
> of the community. what's your point?
>
> > Don't get me wrong. I apreciate that you're organising an event. But
> > it's an event just like the other events. In no way is it more important
> > than the others. http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/events.php3
>
> excuse me, but it takes a lot of goodwill to read "appreciation" into
> any of your postings lately.
>
>
> scratching my head,
>
> jörn
>
>
> (btw, just to make it clear: while i happen to be the list admin atm,
> this is my *personal* opinion, and it does not in anyway reflect list
> policy or some hazy "community pov". i have always tried to keep the two
> well separated, and i intend to continue doing so.)
>
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