Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Request/Offer: Debian package for Scala
From: John Check (j4strngs_AT_bitless.net)
Date: Tue Dec 21 2004 - 03:34:48 EET
On Sunday 19 December 2004 06:30 pm, Dave Robillard wrote:
> On Sun, 2004-19-12 at 16:59 -0500, John Check wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 December 2004 11:00 am, Dave Robillard wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2004-18-12 at 16:44 -0500, John Check wrote:
> > > > > The source doesn't matter to YOU.
> > > >
> > > > Source of the apps, not source code. All of the good things about
> > > > free software are not constants that apply in every case or context.
> > >
> > > Yes they are. Most people may not care in many cases, or other
> > > interests may trump freedom, but that's irrelevant.
> >
> > Selfish
> >
> > > > It's the fact's Jack, for most people source code is worth bupkis.
> > > > Just because we happen to not be most people does not invalidate
> > > > that.
> > >
> > > I really couldn't care less.
> >
> > Selfish. Mind you, I'm selfish too, as are we all, so you don't care, I
> > don't care. Sweet! Let's all have a cup of STFU over it then.
>
> Selfish? What the hell are you talking about?
Other people got it. Go print out the thread and take a weekend retreat.
>
> > > my point was made. Your "cause" is not the same as everyone else's,
> > > get over it - It's the fact's(sic) Jack
> > >
> > > If you really don't get it: my cause is a 100% free software music
> > > production system (and I don't really care what particular kernel that
> > > system runs on for the record). Good, proprietary apps may be best for
> > > your cause, but it sure as hell isn't best for mine.
> >
> > So, what are you calling your reimplementation of Scala then?
>
> .. I don't recall saying I was reimplementing Scala.
>
Correct, but you did say you wanted to see a 100% free platform, and you do
have the skills, and I assumed that you would take the initiative. Remember
"code talks and bullshit walks"? Well, it's getting really stinky in here.
> > It doesn't matter to anybody but you (editorial sense) what your cause
> > is. I'm not judging anybody, I acknowledge it takes all kinds.
> >
> > I'll try not to sound too patronizing and I hate to do this on list but,
> > my recollection is you're a 20 something musician/grad student who's
> > plans are X,Y and Z. I don't question your commitment at this point in
> > time, but y'know, look at human history. Do you expect to be where you
> > are now in 10 years? How do you propose to parlay your free software
> > contributions into a living? It's a dilemma you'll need to deal with if
> > that's the plan. If yer counting on hacking in your spare time... talk to
> > the people who would be your peers.
>
> That's what you call not patronizing?
>
Vocabulary word of the day: try
Sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade and since you didn't refute
any of that....
> Last I checked your primary interest in Linux Audio was to take all the
> technologies and package them in a nice commercial form so you can make
> money off other people's work.
>
> Pop quiz: Who's more selfish?
Yes, I know you have a cognitive deficiency. Let's see, I disagree with you
and I'm still talking about making an opportunity for you or anybody else with
the chops, so it must be me, right?
My interest is to make the world a better place. I'm not yet on the plane of
existence where I've transcended the need for trivia like food, shelter, and
clothing.
I want to insulate users from the horseshit (like this) that turns people off.
If you don't like me abiding by the GPL and being a stickler on copyright,
you don't understand what the GPL is all about.
Be glad I'm using my power for good instead of evil.
>
> > I'm a 44 year old musician/former audio engineer/computer bottom feeder
> > with no day job and no formal education who's likely had more ups and
> > downs than you've had hot meals and sees a great opportunity for someone
> > with my particular skill set, thanks to the hard work of a lot of
> > talented people.
>
> Congratulations, you're old and unemployed. This obviously makes you
> always correct and me a complete idiot I guess?
>
Yeah I'm bald, have backne and athletes foot too. Idiot is your word not mine.
This black/white vision thing... you should see a Doctor about that.
> > I think your apparent lack of concern for what kernel the apps run on
> > combined with the insistence on telling me what's best for "my cause" is
> > cute, like when a puppy runs headlong into a sliding door, so knock it
> > off.
>
> Please show me /exactly/ where I told you what's best for /your/ cause.
The burden is on you, and you're wasting my time.
>
> No really. Paste please. Prove you're not just flat-out lying to my
> face (which you are).
Why, so you can not get it _again_?
>
> > Search the list archive for my position paper. Read it. Notice that it
> > acknowledges everybody has their own areas of expertise and that
> > I state in clear english, a strategy to generate a pool of development
> > money that doesn't require any effort from the community. I also state
> > that I do not code and intended to act as a filter between users and
> > developers. Logic will tell you that is a good state of affairs for
> > people who do code. I watched the thread regarding prototyping a PCI card
> > with some interest as well. It's an ambitious goal and I'd rather work on
> > bootstrapping that than cock around playing holier-than-thou on a list.
> >
> > We all make our contributions, whatever they may be. One has to be a
> > pragmatist in life though. I'd rather see a task being done on Linux
> > generating some mind share to feed the machine than tell a client "Linux
> > can't do it because author A wrote his own license".
>
> Yeah, you want to package Linux audio systems to sell to people. Not
Yeah, and? There's nothing locking anybody into me as a vendor other than
lack of competition and trust. You can take the concept and run with it if you
want, anybody can.
> only that, you wrote a nice little document about how everyone else
> should organize to do this job for you as well as possible. That's
No, I described what I intend to do and where I intend to get the carrots to
dangle. Whether anybody here cooperates or not is not the lynchpin that holds
it all together.
I'm not holding a gun to anybodies head, and I'm not doing anything prohibited
by the license. The only precedent I might possibly be setting is not
sticking all the proceeds in my pocket. If I wanted money, I'd sell
commercial insurance.
> nice, but how it contributes to "the community" is beyond me. Sure will
> contribute to your wallet if all goes well though, eh?
>
I'm not a surprise that you don't see it, because it's called
"entrepreneurship" and it's hard work with a high risk of failure.
It's not like academia where you can show up, go through the motions, graduate
with a C average and still get a decent job because you went to the same Uni
as the H.R. guy.
Not everybody has the strength of will and determination to walk the walk but
you're only fueling the fire if you keep giving me aggression to redirect.
> If you want to be a filter between groups of people, maybe you should
> try the following:
>
> - Don't be rude
What, you mean like SHOUTING?
> - Don't be condescending
Like you wouldn't if you could. The best you could do was call me out for
being "old and unemployed" and I handed you that on a silver platter.
> - Don't lie about what people said in an attempt to attack them
Yah, right. Learn how to argue and don't rely on logical fallacy to provoke
reactions then maybe all the stuff that goes over your head might sink in.
> - Don't call people childish names
>
Rhetorical question: You wanna go back and paste where I did that?
Or was the puppy analogy just too close to home?
> I sure hope you don't plan to be your own PR man.
>
I won't be hiring you, that's for sure.
>
> -DR-
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