Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] recording guitar interfacing
From: Jason (hormonex_AT_yankthechain.com)
Date: Thu Nov 29 2001 - 13:41:55 EET
On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Paul Winkler wrote:
> Sure. A lot of the r.a.p. regulars own, use, and recommend some mics
> costing under $200. Even some of the guys who also have $10000 mics.
>
> The problem is you can also get total sh*t for the same prices,
> sometimes by the same manufacturers. It pays to shop around and do
> some research first, or stick to the old standbys... SM57, MD421,
> SM81, etc.
>
> I think too much is being made of this perceived snobbery. When the
> only people sticking up for the C1000 are amateurs, and a number of
> working professionals are recommending other mics in the *same* price
> range, it makes sense to take that as a warning sign against the
> C1000. Yet I've seen threads in r.a.p. where some guy with a C1000 and
> a 4-track gets offended because he recommended the mic to somebody
> else, and others with more experience had the nerve to contradict him.
> Granted, some of those r.a.p. gurus really could stand to work on
> their social skills...
A lot of working professionals are no talent hacks, but I know what you
mean. I wasn't really referring to R.A.P. because i'm not familiar with
it. I was really talking a bit more about the amazing parrot/sheep hybrid
that makes up so much of the pro audio community. the people so desparate
to be looked at as a respected source of informations that the adopt other
peoples opinions wholesale. I'm really just embittered because I worked in
Pro Audio retail in the recent past, and being constantly surrounded by
incompetent know-it-alls on both sides of the counter rubs your nerve
endings raw after a while. As far as I can tell, they are wounds that time
does little to assuage.
> > Sure I'd give my eye teeth for a matched pair of Earthworks
> > TC40k's, but that doesn't mean thtat those microphones are going to be
> > appropriate in every situation.
>
> Exactly. Ask what mic you should buy, and the correct response is "but
> what do you want to *do* with it?"
>
> > I'm always noticing when I look at the
> > gear listings for recording studios that they seem to have spent tens of
> > thousands of dollars on old tube microphones and antique neumann
> > condensers, and yet they don't have workhorses like shure SM81s or more
> > than one RE20, or they've decided that for some reason having a D112 is
> > the only kick drum mic you'll ever need so long as you have a wide variety
> > of large diaphragm condensers available.
>
> I don't know what studios you're looking at, but I think it depends
> who they're trying to attract. If they mostly do pop vocal groups,
> they'll want the mics that those people and their producers
> expect. That means big high-dollar condensers. If they want to track
> rock bands, they'll need a collection of good dynamic mics, because
> that's what most producers and engineers are accustomed to using for
> that material. The last studio I played in had a slew of 421s, a dozen
> or so SM-57s, two or three RE-20s that I saw, a variety of nice
> small-diaphragm condensers, some cool ribbons (royers), and a handful
> of the big fancy Neumanns. Plus a crate of old weird crap for lo-fi
> fun. We once used a Shure "Green Bullet" harmonica mic on kick
> drum. They had a mic that sounded good for everything we wanted to do.
> Then they went and built a bigger facility and priced themselves way
> out of my range. :(
I should have done something to indicate that I used the term "recording
studios' with a heavy dose of sarcasm. I was really talking about those
guys who throw some eggcrates on the walls of their garage and then try to
charge people 30 dollars an hour to record demos on their VS 880. I don't
know about where all of you folks live, but that sort of thing is running
rampant here in Seattle, and it's one of the reasons that there aren't
many good records being turned out up here as there used to be, IMHO. All
the decent places like Bad Animals and Glennsound seem to be mostly doing
sound design and video post these days, and that's just a shame. Never
mind the fact that it makes it excruciatingly difficult to get work up
here with all the amateurs running around pretending that they know what
they're doing. IT hurts the art.
> > In most circumstances, those
> > 10000 dollar microphones just aren't as useful as an RE20 or a 421 or an
> > sm81 or a
> > grip of sm57s and maybe an AKG C3000 or C535 for vocals.
>
> I'd agree with all of that, except that I really don't like the C3000,
> and I'm pretty sure I decided that before I heard other people bashing
> it. ;) I know someone who makes pretty decent recordings with one, but
> I'd rather not have to do it myself. I haven't heard the 535 yet but
> they're loved by people I trust, so that's on my short list to check
> out when I want more mics.
I adored my 535 back before I sold it to upgrade my monitors. I'm
constantly on the lookout for a good one at a fair price these days. if
you get a chance, grab one. The C3000 is nice because it sounds enough
like a 414 to let you know whether you really wish you had the cash to buy
a couple of 414s. plus they make decent overheads, and sound okay on
alto and soprano vocals.
>
> > In most cases,
> > those really expensive mics will only serve to reveal flaws in the
> > performance anyway.
> > </rant>
>
> What kind of flaws are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense
> to me. If an inexpensive mic hides flaws, wouldn't it be hiding some
> good stuff too?
>
> When I want to hide flaws in my performance, I try to do it better. :)
I'm of the opinion, and I recognize that I'm in a minority here, that
believes that the right microphone is the one that matches an instrument
best. If you have an inferior instrument, chances are the greater accuracy
of a more expensive mic will sound worse than a cheaper mic that makes
mistakes in the right places. Never mind that that annoying 10k lift that
all the really expensive condensers have only really sounds good on analog
tape, so if you're going digital like probably everyone here is, you're
actually going to get an inferior quality recording if you don't
compensate for the fact that those expensive mics are built for 2 inch
tape.
Yet another reason I need to sell a kidney to get a couple of those old
earthworks omnis.
-- YankTheChain.com - You can pretend we're not here. That's what I do.,
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