Re: Frequency response was Re: [linux-audio-user] Audiophile CD's

New Message Reply About this list Date view Thread view Subject view Author view Other groups

Subject: Re: Frequency response was Re: [linux-audio-user] Audiophile CD's
From: Gary Counsellor (sineigs_AT_eskimo.com)
Date: Sun Jan 27 2002 - 20:26:11 EET


Only personal thoughts no numbers to back me up but what the hey.....

> > > is actually not quite adequate for fully representing the sound on
> > > 78's, I've even seen signal [and I really do mean SIGNAL not the
> > > spectrum of a click] going up to 29kHz on an _acoustic_ disk [probably
> > > a resonance in the horn]).

I don't belive it is even adequate for 331/3 or any other vinyl

> > The human ear can hear fundamentals roughly between 20Hz and 20kHz. It is
> > this poorly understood fact that led to CD's sampling at 44.1kHz.
> > According to the nyquist theorem in order to accurately represent a
> > simple signal
> > digitally, you have to sample it at twice it's own frequency, the result
> > of sampling at less than that frequency is a phenomenon known as
> > Aliasing, in which the samples actually give tehm impression of a
> > mathematically related lower frequency. It actually sounds kind of cool
> > as an effect.

I believe the nyquist theorem is correct as far as it goes but did not take
into account that the sounds created by an instrument that are outside of our
hearing range. Accidently built in, kinda like 'holes in the ozone and
aerosole sprays', who knew. By thier existance they have an effect on the
sounds that we do hear. Helping shape the wave forms as they are created and
during their existance. We create tools to measure what we hear. I haven't
heard of too many tools being created to measure what we don't hear and how
it's persistance in existing affects what we can hear. Believing correctly
that our hearing is limited roughly to accepted standards and basing our
tools accordingly leaves us in awe when somebody creates anything like the
'subwoofer' or 'enharmonic enhancement'

> > So anyway, A/D converters put these brick wall filters in line to
> > eliminate the frquencies above 22.05kHz. Since they have to be cheap in
> > most cases, they start doing that cuttoff a lot sooner. hence why sound
> > blaster and similar sound cards aren't really suitable for quality
> > recordings. cheap card = cheap converters = cheap filters = sound
> > attenuation above 15 kHz.
> >
> > Any way, It's not really fair to compare CD's to vinyls because vinyl
> > doesn't have a flat frequncy response; it's an intentional distortion in
> > order to allow for higher dynamic range.
Another gift of the RIAA
In fact, a lot of the alleged
> > "warmth" of vinyl doesn't come from the vinyl at all, but rather the
> > built in compensation in the phono preamps.
Has anybody tried the TerraTec/Fostex phono preamp yet? $100 for the hardware
and a lot of useless windows software but I'd be interested in anybodys
comments.
That having been said, vinyl
> > is allegedly supposed to be capable of accurate reproduction up to 25kHz,
> > although I don't have the kind of dog ears necessary to be able to
> > comment intelligently on that. However, I defy anyone short of geoff
> > emerick or carl beatty to point me to a sound system that isn't
> > accurately
> > reproducing frequencies above 18k. It's really an issue that too much is
> > made of, IMHO, because most people can't hear it, and of the ones who
> > can, it's such a small portion of the available information, that it's
> > practically irrelevant.

I was at a play last night complete with live band in a small venue. Most of
the horns in band had droped out prior to opening night and I believe that
they did so because; the horns, played with their proper techniques, resulted
in too loud a performance for the actors and audience to work with (you try
playing a trumpet quietly (chuckle) but it don't sound much like a real
trumpet). Rather than try to play quietly and sound lousy they opt to give
up. The only horn to stay and try their best was a lone french horn played
by a very talented individual who still, trying her best, could not keep the
timber up or the quavering in and out of tune out completely. Personally I
thought it added to the realism of ancient musical instruments, somewhat.

Hence most instruments, perfectly designed to deliver what we expect from
them are incapable of giving us that unless we are willing to accept that the
expected sound comes only under certain conditions or restraints. Wax
cylinders, vinyl, plastic, digital cannot reproduce fully or accurately
mainly be we do not ourselves understand (yet) just what needs to be
reproduced. What we can and do create is a notion that what we are hearing
is the real thing. I know many many so called audiophiles all looking for
the closest they can get to the 'real thing'. Many working from hardware
stats, or going with their gut feeling of what they hear. Most have no idea
what a RTA is what their rooms specs are, what the difference is between
white noise, pink noise, hot spots, sweet spots etc. But they all have one
thing in common;

No matter how accurately they wish to have a sound reproduce they do NOT wish
to have that instrument in that room. Why? They all go to concerts to hear
the real thing. We all know that the real thing is "where it's at" even
though it is quite often impractical. What many of us do not realise is that
the real thing is not what is really wanted. Only the Realistic impression
that 'this' is the real thing. That relies soley upon our mental and
emotional analysis of the 'media' under our own physical examination.

Sometime we have to forget what are tools are telling us and do the right
thing anyway.

-- 
Gary Counsellor http://www.musician2000.com
sineigs.all.attitudes_AT_eskimo.com
Please remove.all.attitudes before replying

In 1977, there were 37 Elvis impersonators in the world. In 1993, there were 48,000. At this rate, by the year 2010 one out of every three people will be an Elvis impersonator. (Source: N/A)


New Message Reply About this list Date view Thread view Subject view Author view Other groups

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Sun Jan 27 2002 - 20:09:21 EET