Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Flash audio
From: Rob (lau_AT_kudla.org)
Date: Tue Sep 02 2003 - 09:13:39 EEST
On Monday 01 September 2003 20:39, RTaylor wrote:
> > When I see someone do something as nifty as the homestar or
> > campchaos.com stuff using the hodgepodge of tools and
> > formats you're describing, I'll believe that.
> I'm describing some pretty competent commercial tools. From
> both sides of the linux wall. You didn't check any of those
> links did you?
I found out that the Corel thing you're espousing doesn't even
*support* sound. Are you sure you didn't mean to pitch this
thing as a PDF replacement or something?
If you'd been to the links I mentioned, you'd know I'm talking
about art ("content" if you would argue funny cartoons aren't
art), not tools. All the bullet points and buzzword support in
the world will not make a Strongbad video.
> What do you think's getting done with all of the software
> that is capable of authoring SVG?
I'm guessing a lot of nice corporate logos and other things for
which people have been using metafiles over the last decade,
since SVG is essentially the new CGM/WMF/EMF. That's certainly
what Corel would like you to be doing.
For the third time I challenge you to show me some real world
examples out there on the web, and when you do I'll go to the
trouble of finding a Mandrake package of an SVG viewer. I did
look for the Corel viewer and it appears to only be available
for Windows.
If it's not yet practical to do an engaging, rich, multimedia
presentation in an SVG file yet, just say so. (And don't forget
that the title of this thread is "Flash audio" and we're
speaking on a list called "linux-audio-user". That is to say,
don't skimp on the music and sound effects.)
> I doubt many folk out there give a damn what extension's
> attached to their file.
They do when they have a choice between "sbemail047.swf" and
"sbemail047.svg", "assets/sbemail047-01.mp3",
"assets/sbemail047-02.mp3", "assets/sbemail047-03.mid",
"assets/sbemail047-04.js", "assets/sbemail047-05.mp3", etc....
> As I said "most artists research their tools to a really high
> degree {large extent, whatever}" {That that sort of thing's
We have here two vector graphic formats. Both are freely
available and documented with open specifications, yet for
multimedia purposes, both require proprietary software both to
create and to view them. One has been deemed worthy to kiss the
W3C's ring, the other is already in use by at least 90% of those
people browsing the web. That other one has also been mature
about 5 years longer, its browser plugin is about 8 times
smaller, it supports mp3 audio, synchronized and embedded in the
same file, and enough interactivity that many, many people have
written games using nothing but this other file format.
As for the W3C's chosen format... well, you might be able to
trigger some external mp3's using Javascript or something. And
we heard there are some guys over there doing something with
RealMedia and SMIL, maybe you could ask them to write some XML
for you or something.
Sometimes what's politically correct is just not artistically
appropriate. Do you want your project to get headlines because
it's brilliant, or because you made a silk purse out of a sow's
ear?
> gone out of favor in favor of "do only what the customer
> requires" or "always follow the path of least resistance" is
Yeah, yeah, true artists don't care about their audience, I know.
Just the artists that ever *have* an audience.
> Rembrandt, Pollock, Ernst, DaVinci, TD, Puppy...
You mention Tangerine Dream and Skinny Puppy a few times as
apparent examples in support of your cause. The truth is, both
artists chose to release their music in multiple formats so as
to reach the widest possible audience, despite some of them
being sonically and technically inferior to the others and
despite some formats being encumbered by patents and other
inconveniences. Even now, you can buy Tangerine Dream on
tape... not because it's better, but because at the time certain
of the albums were made, that was where the *biggest audience*
was.
To summarize this thread: Neither Flash nor SVG allows the easy
creation of multimedia presentations including audio, using free
software or otherwise, under Linux. Both will cost you a lot of
money to use in the first place and both have non-free browser
plugins available, Flash currently reaches about 90% of the
browsers out there, and SVG doesn't appear to have audio support
at all.
Any questions?
Rob
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Tue Sep 02 2003 - 09:29:27 EEST