Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Fwd: [Jamin] Re: soft clip: Achieving Gain, inconsequential overloads
From: Jan Depner (eviltwin69_AT_cableone.net)
Date: Mon Apr 12 2004 - 23:47:09 EEST
Ron,
There's a command line tool out there called normalize that you might
want to look at. It's on the Loads of Linux Links page (that's easier
to search for).
Jan
On Sun, 2004-04-11 at 21:03, R Parker wrote:
>
> --- Mark Knecht <markknecht_AT_comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2004-04-11 at 13:16, R Parker wrote:
> > > Hi,
>
> > Ron,
> > I'm not totally sure I'm in tune with the exact
> > problem yet, but on
> > my end today I'm doing some first mixes of a Big
> > Band group I recorded
> > Thursday and last evening. 8 horns, drums, bass,
> > guitar and piano.
> > Probably not the same sort of music you're working
> > on. (Strange music
> > for me too....jeez...I'm dancing close with a sexy
> > brunette in 1940's
> > New York...) ;-)
>
> That sounds like a fun job. I don't work with live
> horn sections very often but man they are great.
>
> > My first step, which doesn't effect sound if it's
> > done right, was to
> > simply normalize the tracks up a bit. (I told the
> > normalizer to make the
> > highest peak -1db)
>
> I've never normalized a track. Can normalization hold
> a -0.5db peak to -0.5 while it pushes a -12db valley
> up to -6db?
>
> If normalization behaves that way, it can help
> "louden" a mix which would be appropriate for my
> situation. That combined with cutting dominant
> frequencies would give me the loudness I need.
>
> I'll read up on normalization tonight. Do we have a
> LADSPA normalization plugin or are they non-realtime
> tools? I imagine you must produce a new normalized
> file. Is that correct?
>
> Until this job, I've never really needed to get every
> bit of available gain from a mix so normalization has
> never meant anything to me. Someone on this list tried
> to explain it to me once but I'm to old and bullheaded
> to learn anything new. That is, until my rear end is
> hanging in the air.
>
> > I'm no expert on compressors, but I think a
> > 4-band compressor is a
> > really place to start for what you want to do, so
> > Jamin should be
> > helpful. My biggest recommendation would be to
> > compress as little as
> > possible. If I do too much it all sounds unnatural.
> > In my case it's
> > really only the band below 100Hz that's consistently
> > ranging down. The
> > other 3 are moving much less.
>
> With the job I'm doing compression and limiting are
> probably alot more extreme than what you're doing.
> This is multitrack pop music. Reguardless, when I
> reach for the last bit of gain, I'm limiting to damned
> hard. If normalization does what I hope then it
> combined with leveling the floor by cutting and
> compressing dominant frequencies might enable me to
> achieve greater "loudness" without the super hard
> limiting. As I think about it, I'm not sure what else
> normalization could be.
>
> Good stuff, thanks for the help,
>
> ron
>
> > >
> > > > --- Steve Harris <S.W.Harris_AT_ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Apr 11, 2004 at 10:04:43 -0700, R
> > Parker
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Not sure but I probably mentioned something
> > > > about
> > > > > this
> > > > > > several months ago. Steve, do you have a
> > soft
> > > > clip
> > > > > > LADSPA plug? If yes, I think it should be a
> > > > > candidate
> > > > > > for adding to the output stage of JAMin.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are some soft clip LADSPA plugins, but I
> > > > dont
> > > > > think any of them are
> > > > > better than JAMin's "boost".
> > >
> > > > The thing is my client has requested a %20
> > increase
> > > > in
> > > > volume across the entire album. The first
> > question
> > > > is
> > > > does he know what he's asking for. Well, he
> > probably
> > > > has a fair enough idea. He has compared the old
> > > > master
> > > > with stylistically similar million dollar
> > masters
> > > > and
> > > > concluded the percentage to increase.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone here has tricks for achieving gain, I
> > need
> > > > to hear about them. My bag ain't got alot in it.
> > I
> > > > basically cut dominant frequency either with
> > > > compression or equalization and with the leveled
> > off
> > > > floor, achieve gain possible; input, compressor
> > > > makeup, limiter input, boost and output. Of
> > course
> > > > then it's just a matter of tweaking ratios,
> > > > thresholds, etc.
> > > >
> > > > The trade off in general is less dynamics and
> > more
> > > > distortion with several deciables of increased
> > > > volume.
> > > > I love the work but this job is like a No Rules
> > Cage
> > > > Match. I might eventually win the title but it's
> > a
> > > > good thing I brought lunch and a first aid kit.
> > > >
> > > > > I've heard that you can ignore peaks that only
> > go
> > > > > over 0dB for less than a
> > > > > millisecond, but I've not experimented with
> > it.
> >
> > I think this is very specific to to where in the
> > chain it happens as
> > well as the exact system you're using.
> >
> > > >
> > > > If that's the case, then I might have this job
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > bag. I'm watching overloads at the input
> > channels of
> > > > my mixer flicker on and off. I've been trying
> > very
> > > > hard to have absolutely zero overload
> > indications.
> > > >
> > > > Any idea how to test this potential point of
> > > > flexibility or how to push this limit? What am I
> > > > watching for and how do I watch for it? This
> > seems
> > > > like a very interesting area of study. I've
> > gotta do
> > > > a
> > > > dirt knap and then maybe google about or
> > something.
> > > >
> > > > ron
> > > >
> > > > > - Steve
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
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