Subject: Re: Open Source Hardware (Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-dev] RME is no more)
From: Winfried Ritsch (ritsch_AT_iem.at)
Date: Thu Dec 16 2004 - 14:48:00 EET
Hello,
just info for storytellers: (since the themme is open source hardware and
rme )
stoneages ago i made an open source hardwarecard, called MAAS (see
http://iem.kug.ac.at/ritsch/hardware/maas/main.html )
So I made a four layer dsp-card for use with ,many ption including standalone,
but the main problem was bugs in the dspcore (pci interface) and so on.
I was a kind of followup of a project of elector, a german electronic
magazine, where also a first SPDIf was a project (i think using an fpga),
where rme followed witheir first RME card ;-) and I ended up with writing
the first kernel-driver for rme-hammerfall, since their product was better
and more costless than the open source hardware (if i calculate the assembly
work as money), even if i had the the work writing the linux-kernel driver, i
needed for my project.
Doing a study project (and open source hardware) and a product for
distribution is quite another thing and a big step, so open source hardware
is a different than software, since somebody has to build it and this is
work. But anyhow, I like the idea... maybe somebody want continue to do the
MAAS, nowadays this should be much cheaper....
mfg winfried ritsch
Am Mittwoch, 15. Dezember 2004 22:03 schrieb Fernando Lopez-Lezcano:
> On Wed, 2004-12-15 at 11:24, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > On 15 Dec 2004 10:29:38 -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
> >
> > <nando_AT_ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 09:46, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > > > On 14 Dec 2004 10:03:31 +0100, Andreas Kuckartz <A.Kuckartz_AT_ping.de>
wrote:
> > > > > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > > > > Christ, what the fuck country do you live in? Don't you
> > > > > > understand the concept of people having bills to pay? Or do you
> > > > > > just assume the RME guys are independenly wealthy and just design
> > > > > > sound cards for fun?
> > > > >
> > > > > Interestingly some people seem to be existing who are working on
> > > > > Linux for fun. Also there is a concept known as "Open Source
> > > > > Hardware" which was mentioned here before.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, it was Lee and I (I think) who were the main proponents of
> > > > the Open Source Sound Card idea. Funny how that works out at times.
> > > >
> > > > My current thought is that there aren't enough people interested in
> > > > doing it. Maybe I'm wrong?
> > >
> > > Maybe, maybe not. One quick question I have been meaning to ask. Would
> > > it be possible to completely drive the card with firmware? What I mean,
> > > can all the packet processing be handled by an onboard processor in the
> > > soundcard? No gate arrays? What I picture is of-the-shelf components
> > > only... [*]
> >
> > I believe this is (more or less) completely possible. Let's use two
> > of the recently maligned RME's products as an example - the HDSP 9652
> > and the Hammerfall Light. (Hey - imagine that?! I chose the two cards
> > I own!) ;-)
> >
> > [MUNCH]
> >
> > With the price of Xilinx chips coming down all the time, and with
> > functionality going up, I see a small card with one large FPGA, a
> > small eeprom to enable a PCI enterface in the chip, and some
> > transceivers for ADAT and/or s/pdif. I am just guessing that even in
> > small volumes this can probably be built for under $300/card. (That's
> > a total guess.)
> >
> > The nice thing about this, in my mind, is that when Xilinx comes
> > out with each new generation you can imagine putting a bigger Xilinx
> > chip on the same card and programming more interesting things, like
> > hardware mixers. This is rally all RME did between the Hammerfall and
> > HDSP line. (I'm being purposely simplistic here.)
> >
> > There are certainly HUGE challenges for a group of folks like us
> > doing this. Verilog (or VHDL) design, which I don't do, compiling that
> > code into something that programs the Xilinx chips (Symplicity?)
> > assembly, testing, etc., but none of it is unsurmountable. It just
> > takes some vision and, unfortunately, some money unless we can get
> > access to some Open Source tools or, possibly, commercial tools
> > through some friendly company.
> >
> > Doing this as a 1394-based external unit is really interesting, but
> > is more complicated. Maybe PCI is the best for now.
>
> I'm not so sure PCI would be the best answer for a project like this
> one, and that was the point of the question. I would be concerned about
> the tools. Xilinx arrays will probably need closed source and expensive
> software.
>
> What I was thinking about was this:
> - 1394 chip (off the shelf, no programming)
> - (high speed?) ucontroller (off the shelf, use one that has open
> source tools for programming it).
> - line drivers for spdif and/or ADAT (driven from the ucontroller)
> - DA/AD chips (driven from the ucontroller)
>
> So, this approach would reduce the problem to hardware interconnection
> of logic parts (rather easy) and firmware for the ucontroller (hard).
>
> The question would be, it this doable with available ucontrollers that
> have open source compiler toolchains?
>
> -- Fernando
-- -- - ao.Univ.Prof. DI Winfried Ritsch - ritsch_AT_iem.at - http://iem.at/ritsch - Institut fuer Elektronische Musik und Akustik - University of Music and Dramatic Art Graz - Tel. ++43-316-389-3510 (3170) Fax ++43-316-389-3171 - PGP-ID 69617A69 (see keyserver http://wwwkeys.at.gpg.net/) --
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