Re: [LAU] [PlanetCCRMA] Mixer Wowes

On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Esben Stien <b0ef@email-addr-hidden-stien.name> wrote:
> Dave Phillips <dlphillips@email-addr-hidden> writes:
>
>> I do in any Ubuntu system is to disable Pulseaudio (along with a
>> raft of other stuff).
>
> Well, if you enter the configuration file, you can set it up as a JACK
> client.

Or you can simply configure Alsa to use Jack with an .asoundrc. Plenty
of examples on the interlink for most sound devices, including
multiple devices. A config file is a config file

>> On a stock Ubuntu Studio 9.04 JACK will not launch until Pulseaudio
>> has been disabled.
>
> Well, this is a distro fault. There is ongoing work to have messages
> between the daemons to let pulseaudio yield when JACK requests the
> device. It would also be nice here, if, when pulseaudio yields, the
> pulseaudio daemon automatically switches to JACK output.

This has been a distro fault for sometime, if indeed this is the case.
And i'd dare venture that if distros had embraced Jack as quickly and
enthusiastically as that had Pulse (with almost no warning to users)
we wouldn't know what pulse was.

> What you can do today is just let pulseaudio be a JACK client, as then
> it would not request the device at all.

I can't believe app builders would have anymore difficulty writing
audio pugins for Jack, than they did with Pulse. Again, as a 'power'
user, i'm mystified by the apparent lack of ongoing enthusiasm in the
debian/ubuntu world for unifying into a linux sound management system
that would serve both domestic and professional users. Did the Jack
team run over someone's cat?

>> This is major pain, because Ubuntu (GNOME?) has coupled its desktop
>> to the server.
>
> And rightly so. It would be a major design fault to not abstract this
> from the desktop environment.

Why? Surfing the interlink brings countless tales of woe, with users
struggling to build a decent setup to cater for their musical needs,
be it just listening or creating, because removing pulse shreds their
setup, and toasts just about anything worthwhile. While the
dependencies invoked by the debian/ubuntu builders may be justified in
an attempt to provide as smooth and easy a setup for new and otherwise
users, again, we could have done all this with jack, and saved a lot
of pain all round, had app builders considered modernising their fine
programmes to use jack as the primary server by default. Alsa
provided, and continues to provide a sound device management system
equal to or greater than anything in a commerical sphere, but Jack
also provides users of all ilks with the means to enjoy the freedoms
of unlimited ports and multiple apps running at the same time.
Again, who ran over who's cat?

>> I can't safely remove Pulseaudio, but I can disable it according to
>> a set of instructions I found with a Google search.
>
> Well, or just set it up as a JACK client and be done with it.

And add another layer of complexity for the user, who, when something
goes wrong, has even more to figure out, and is even more reliant on
the generosity and patience of devs and experienced users, if the time
is available.
Please don't say Pulse works automatically, or even just works.
Because the interlink says otherwise.

>
>> Btw, 'killall pulseaudio' doesn't work. The server is set up for
>> persistence, so the daemon simply relaunches itself, staying in the
>> way of a successful JACK start.
>
> As you and I and all of us run JACK all the time, pulseaudio is set up
> as a JACK client, so.. problem solved.

Not at all. I dumped Pulse in Hardy when it declined to recognise Jack
as a valid alternative, and wouldn't shut down, or give way.
Those that know me know i pursue solutions, and ask questions,
relentlessly, to find an answer for not only myself, but users less
experienced in working in linux. (The slightly less blind leading the
blind)
But in this case i got multiple versions of: "Sounds like your OS is
corrupted. You'll have to reinstall."
Windows thinking. Yes?

>
>> On my notebook Pulseaudio recognizes a master output and a PCM channel.
>> It doesn't see the Mic/Line inputs at all, they only show up after I
>> disable Pulseaudio and establish ALSA as my primary sound manager.
>
> Still the same here..

Not a good sign then.

>
>> My needs are professional, ergo I do not need or want Pulseaudio.
>
> I just can't see this as an issue, cause it's not;). Pulse runs as a
> JACK client. End of story;).

You may not recognise it as an issue Esben, but others do. What is
more disturbing is the determination to feed compulsory Pulse to all
whilst still in a still maturing state, and still with much to do. And
let's not forget here, you're a highly experienced user, who knows how
to find a solution. For poor little Sally Singalong trying to record
her first tune, it's a world of mystery, and beyond her capacity to
fix.

I'm pleased to here you have a working setup that just goes.
But i wonder, if we were to do a straw poll, how many users actually
enjoy the same experience as you, and if not, why.
Jack's not perfect in this regard either, but at least there's a
chance to quickly narrow down the problem, and identify possible
solutions.

I'm with Fons on this one. Too much like chasing Windows, instead of
finessing the wonderful attributes Linux already has to offer.

Alex.

p.s. Did the Jack team really runover someone's cat?

>
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