Re: [LAU] poll : Advertising vs Linux Audio

On Sun, April 22, 2012 1:52 pm, Robin Gareus wrote:
> On 04/22/2012 12:12 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, April 22, 2012 11:24 am, Robin Gareus wrote:
>>> On 04/22/2012 11:15 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still not sure why you don't want businesses to give people round
>>>> here
>>>> money.
>>>
>>> Not at all. "people 'round here" can take all the money they want from
>>> anyone for whatever they deem fit.
>>>
>>> but linuxaudio.org itself will have a hard time. Usually money comes
>>> with obligations and we are in no position to handle that properly.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe I am naive but I thought our obligation as a consortium was to
>> discuss these topics and come to a workable solution that benefits all
>> members.
>
> just take it in stride. -- Your obligation as member of the management
> board is also to meet with the others at least once a year :) [ see 2.
> at http://linuxaudio.org/policy ]
>

Funny that no one brought it up until now...

>>> Currently there is no flow of money in or out of linuxaudio.org - it's
>>> all volunteer work and hosting is sponsored by vt.edu.
>>>
>>>> Are you also advocating the idea that *no one* should make money
>>>> from Linux Audio?
>>>
>>> certainly not.
>>>
>>>> Are you also adverse to all forms of advertising in relation to Linux
>>>> Audio?
>>>
>>> Personally, I'm averse against all forms of advertising :)
>>>
>>
>> That's interesting. So how do you feel about for example, Google? A
>> Linux
>> focused company that makes the bulk of it's revenue from advertising,
>> that
>> contributes a significant amount of money to open source development and
>> even employs members of this the Linux Audio Community. They also happen
>> to be one of the largest companies in the tech world.
>
> We're getting a bit OT here, but it's fun to get known to each other,
> isn't it..
>
> google: as long as they don't mind me using Adblock, it's live and let
> live. -- I turned down some job offers there for various reasons.
>

I don't see how one of the most successful Linux companies that makes the
bulk of it's money from advertising is off topic in a thread about the
value of advertising to Linux Audio. Maybe I am missing something?

>> Would you prefer Redhat not to advertise and promote to allow them to
>> achieve billions of dollars in sales? They also provide a significant
>> amount of financial support to members of this community not to mention
>> their contributions to the Kernel.
>
> RedHat is doing a fine job. But different rules apply: linuxaudio.org is
> a community site, RedHat is a company. Apples and Oranges.
>
>> How about Ubuntu? Should Mark Shuttelworth feel sorry for advertising
>> the
>> viability of the ubuntu experience?
>
> My "ubuntu experience" is a rather sad story. I recommend to most PPL
> not to use Ubuntu.
>
>> Should they stop marketing and promotions?
>
> yes, I'd very much prefer that.
>

And does that apply to all other Linux companies or are you just biased
against Ubuntu?

>> What about Ardour and Harrison or even Trinity Audio Group? Should they
>> stop accepting paid advertising or paying for advertising/marketing
>> opportunities?
>
> There's advertisement on ardour.org ?
>

Possibly not any longer but there was a period where Google ads were being
run against the Ardour project.

>> What about all the trade shows where the sole purpose of such events is
>> for self promotion and marketing?
>
> You're free not to go there. They don't push it on you. If you choose to
> go and expect to see self promotion and marketing; that's great! I do
> enjoy visiting those events.
>

So, how do you justify that one then? The sole purpose of the event is for
marketing but you are averse to that? I'm not sure why you enjoy that
experience. Maybe it's a French masochistic thing?

>> And then we have DJ's, musicians and event promoters. Should they all
>> stop
>> marketing themselves and just hope that people come to their gigs?
>>
>> Not to mention TV and Radio. Both industries represent a significant
>> potential revenue stream for Linux Audio businesses.
>
> /me does not have a TV nor Radio :)
>

Ahh yes, and let us not forget the movie industry. I suppose the creator
of xjadeo does not support the movie industry too?

>> An least we forget about all the medical, scientific and other
>> technology
>> industries that require our skills to make progress. Do you really think
>> everyone should stop marketing, promoting and advertising?
>
> No, but I'm also yet to come across a valuable scientific or medical
> contribution that directly benefited from marketing or ads.
>

Panadol?
Strepsils?
Bandaid?
Preparation H?

Or perhaps the money spent by the entire IT industry is enough to sway you?

>> Do you really think it is a reasonable policy for the Linux Audio
>> Community let alone the Consortium which claims to support professional
>> Linux Audio to be completely anti advertising?
>
> My personal opinion aside:
>
> I'm in favor to maintain a reasonable approach.
> The freedom of the community (no user-tracking, no obligations WRT to
> content posted on the site, no harassment, no discrimination, etc) takes
> priority. We should _not_ be "completely anti advertising", but think
> twice before adding ads or agreeing to 3rd party conditions.
>
> We can certainly express gratitude or favor companies that support
> linuxaudio.org but must be careful about maintaining independence.
>
> It's not possible to genralize advertising campaigns, but online
> marketing techniques usually come with strings attached..
>
> Nobody complained that you put a link to _your_ site on the pages _you_
> maintain on *.linuxaudio.org - but 3rd party interests - esp paid - is
> questionable.
>

Hence the request for clarification of Policy. Instead all I get is a knee
jerk reaction and irrational prejudice. Hardly conducive to making
progress...

>> Do the other members of this community feel so strongly too? That
>> advertising is without merit and should be avoided like the plague for
>> fear of contaminating out precious Linux Audio Ecosystem.
>>
>> Are we so succeptable to the evil powers of corporations that seek to
>> control our message and brand that we cannot manage to hold our own
>> ground
>> and even take control of the message for our own purposes to promote the
>> viability and power of the Linux Audio Platform and tools?
>>
>
> probably not, but there's a big lack of manpower behind linuxaudio.org
> esp when it comes to bureaucracy, administration and PR. It'd be easy to
> subvert the medium and the message.
>

So a policy that sets clear guidelines is completely out of the question?

Is it simply in the "Too Hard" basket?

--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
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