Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Realtime restrictions when running multipleaudioapps .. Was: Re: disksampler ...
From: Benno Senoner (sbenno_AT_gardena.net)
Date: Tue Jul 18 2000 - 21:41:10 EEST
On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Erik Steffl wrote:
> I don't think it's as simple as that. most of the programs today have
> some sound support, for example all gnome programs (as far as I can
> tell, I checked the games, pan (news reader) and other gnome programs)
> have sound support. so if the sound server crashes, all of these
> programs crash. for a desktop system (including music studio system)
> it's almost the same as system crash.
No, regular apps will not use the plugin model as said before,
they will use arts, esd x-audio etc.
>
> I already had somewhat related problem, when i had no sound support,
> most programs ran, but as soon as I started alsa without oss support
> conmfigured, all gnome programs stopped working (well, I can still use
> --disable-sound to make them work). I mean these things affect the whole
> system, even though they are in user space.
>
> we (=it's quite often in linux community) criticize MS for putting
> everything in kernel just for runtime performance (think video drivers
> etc.) and now we're talking about doing exactly the same thing in linux.
> the sound server segfault is not simple segfault, as long as all the
> apps are using it. and from the discussion it looks like they would have
> to since the sound server would have exclusive access to audio devices
> in/dev.
we are still in userspace, and if the faulty standalone sequencer crashes
it isn't nice too.
>
> > David said you could add some memory protection to via a kernel module.
> > But that is too tricky IMHO.
>
> that might be a way to go... if it's possible.
>
> ...
> >> But no one requires you to convert/run all your apps within this model.
> > Only the high-end ones will require so.
> > (I think Cubase + ReWire on windows does it in a similar way)
>
> as I understood the discussion the sound server would be for
> everybody. if only few apps would use it then you would not be able to
> run any other audio apps while you're running the sound server. that
> does not make much sense. the point of the sound server was to be able
> to use more then one app to access the audio.
makes no sense ?
What do you prefer:
- not being able to do high-end stuff with linux, but having
sequencers / hdrecorders and synths with crappy latency
and timing behaviour
BUT still be able to head your window-mangager's ding-dong,
or your biff's sound during your recording session
- you can't use the toy-programs (or better: you can use them using
an additional middleman eg a rtsoundserver plugin which interfaces
with the regular soundserver)
during doing serious-work, but all sequencers / samplers / synths
HD recorders will run perfectly in sync with excellent low latencies.
The ones that disagree are simply not understanding the whole picture.
Visit a recording studio, and see how many folks are running their
toy audio apps during serious recording.
the consumer stuff and the pro stuff are COMPLETELY separate issues.
Hopefully you noticed that I talked about the PRO-AUDIO stuff all the time.
speaking in windows terms: nobody is going to need to install VST hosts/plugins,
Rewire etc in order to listen at mp3s with winamp.
And while using Cubase , winamp does not work.
unacceptable ?
strangely enough Mac and Windows are the most widely used platform in the
recording studios ... ( but we are working hard so that linux can get a piece
of the pie too)
Benno.
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