Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: Behringer
From: Dave Robillard (drobilla_AT_connect.carleton.ca)
Date: Thu Dec 02 2004 - 07:58:39 EET
On Wed, 2004-01-12 at 17:29 -0600, Jan Depner wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 16:37, Dave Robillard wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-30-11 at 17:43 -0500, Lee Revell wrote:
> > > No one said they were good. I just said it was better than no support
> > > at all, and whatever RME decides to do, they designed the hardware, it's
> > > THEIR CHOICE.
> >
> > No, it's not better than no support at all. No support doesn't destroy
> > Linux in the long run. Try to think on a little wider scale than
> > getting one silly little sound card to work in your specific (x86,
> > running a "supported" version of the Linux kernel) computer. There are
> > more important things than trivial convenience for a small subset of
> > Linux users (at the expense of all the other ones) you know.
> >
>
> My problem is a whole lot more important than 1 silly little sound
> card. As I said before, somewhere around 200 Linux systems with NVIDIA
> cards and the proprietary driver. The "more important" things you speak
> of are important to you but not to me. I don't belong to your church.
>
> > > You can't expect people to respect your choice to GPL the
> > > code you write then bitch and moan when they decide to sell their
> > > hardware under terms that make sense to them. If you don't like it then
> > > pardon my French but you can design your own fucking sound card.
> > >
> > > Lee
> >
> > If you don't like your software being free and open, then pardon my
> > French but you can go design your own fucking operating system. If not,
> > you could at least have some respect for the ideals that are the reason
> > for the creation of this one.
> >
>
> Children, children, try to be civil. You miss the point Dave. I
> don't have to design my own OS. Someone else did it for me and put it
> under the GPL so I can use it. Unfortunately RME didn't do that and I
> can't force them to. The software I write is also under the GPL so
> someone else can use it anytime they want. That, though, is my (and
> Steve's and Jack's and Ron's and Patricks') choice. Nobody twisted our
> arms. *If* I was in the market for an RME Fireface I would hope that
> RME would put out *any* kind of Linux driver for it. Eventually, if
> someone were sharp enough, they'd reverse engineer it and then I could
> switch to the open source driver. I seriously doubt that anyone is
> going to get the generic NVIDIA driver to run as fast as the one that
> NVIDIA puts out and, until they do, I'm stuck with a closed source
> driver. I'm not going to cry about it though.
>
> I think you're being overly pessimistic Dave. Linux isn't going to
> be destroyed because companies put out closed source drivers. In fact,
> most of the proprietary posturing reminds me of the story of the seven
> Chinese brothers. You can't hold back the sea.
>
>
> Jan
I'm not being overly pessimistic, you just havn't put an ounce of
thought into the problem at all. And anyway, Linux has already been
somewhat "destroyed" in a way, since it's (apparently) impossible to
have a completely open source system with modern 3D acceleration.
What's next? video cards? network cards? chipsets? sound cards? the
entire computer? How about sounds cards.. maybe this trend will catch
on and there won't be any professional quality sound cards available
that work in Linux at all.. then Linux is completely useless as an
audio platform. Sounds pretty destroyed to me.
If things keep going the way you seem to think is perfectly fine, the
whole damn kernel will be proprietary. I've said it before and I'll say
it again - we already have a totally closed, single architechture, buggy
POS operating system. Why must you advocate turning Linux into one too?
In a couple years, when those 200 linux systems are absolutely useless
because Nvidia doesn't care about you anymore, maybe then you'll learn.
When (not if) that happens, and you have a pile of video cards you
probably payed over $4000 for that are good for absolutely nothing, fire
me an email and let me know what you think of proprietary drivers.
Of course, if it was to happen soon and your employer loses a couple
thousand dollars because of your choice, I guess you'll have more
important things to worry about than continuing this conversation -
like, say, finding a new job.
-DR-
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