Re: [LAU] ASCAP Assails Free-Culture, Digital-Rights Groups

On 07/01/2010 10:57 PM, drew Roberts wrote:
> On Wednesday 30 June 2010 11:41:25 Paul Davis wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:21 AM, drew Roberts<zotz@email-addr-hidden> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday 30 June 2010 10:14:27 Paul Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>> as i see it, the same argument applies to artists and other people who
>>>> spend time creating expressions of ideas. the big question is whether
>>>> or not society agrees that it is desirable for such work to be able to
>>>> be the basis of a way of making living. if a musician/composer is
>>>> going to make a living from their work, its important for them to
>>>> retain control over people's ability to copy what they create.
>>>>
>>> Or to be paid up front, in full before releasing the first copy... Or to?
>>>
>> this clearly works for artists with a reputation among sufficient
>> patrons that makes this possible. its not a general model for artists
>> with no reputation.
>>
> So perhaps they need to use this as a loss leader until they develop a
> sufficient reputation.
>
>>
>>>> if we
>>>> want a society in which people can do this sort of thing for a living,
>>>> giving them this control (on reasonable terms)
>>>>
>>> This is currently the big rub. The terms today are not reasonable. Far
>>> from it. But supposedly these totally over the top terms are still not
>>> good enough to ensure that the artists can survive.
>>>
>> i don't think that anyone in this thread has suggested this. i think
>> most people on this list probably agree that many of the ways that
>> large corporations have succeeded in getting copyright law changed
>> have created an "unreasonable" situation with respect to copyright.
>>
> The problem is not just are we suggesting this. It is being done. Under our
> noses. Are we fighting against it?
>
>

If the majority ignore the rules then the rules cease to be relevant.

>> however, a separate problem remains that even if one were to stipulate
>> terms that most people might agree are wholly reasonable, its hard to
>> see how to enforce these terms at this point in time.
>>
> And there is the rub on that side of things. But I have maintained for years
> in other areas that we should not have laws on the books that we do not
> intend to (or can't) enforce fairly and regularly. Otherwise, we breed
> contempt for law in general.
>
> Are we to get to the point were we pass a death sentence on those who
> illegally copy music? Will that put enough fear into the people to get them
> to stop?
>
>

I won't be surprised if there will be some who will push for that on the
premise of defending copyright laws but the real motive will be to
instead create another legally sanctioned method for controlling society.

>> this cultural
>> change makes it much more difficult to use control over expressions of
>> one's own ideas as a means of making a living.
>>
> So, for a brief point in time, things came together to allow this. That time
> wasn't here long and seems to be passing. Rather than ruining society in
> general we need to look forward and try to find ways for those who want to
> earn a living with their art to be able to do so if they possess the
> necessary skills, temperament, etc. to do so. And that art gets produced in
> any case.
>
> I am convinced that people will pay for art to be produced and to "hang out"
> with artists in one form or another.
>
>

Traditionally the payment has been with food, drink, shelter, sex and
drugs. ;-)

Money doesn't usually change hands in the music world. Only the minority
of artists actually see any serious cash.

> all the best,
>
> drew
>
>
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-- 
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
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