Re: [LAU] [OT] Looking for symphony with good counterpoint or independent voices

On 11/01/2016 10:01 AM, J. C. wrote:
> Nov 1 2016, David Santamauro has written:
> ...
>> I can probably help you more if you give a bit more detail as to what
>> you want from these examples.
>>
>> As Dave said above, you will find many more examples in chamber music
>> than the symphony.
> Hello Daivd and Dave,
> thank you both for the pointers. I'm a quite familiar with Bach and the
> forms of his time. Thus, I've seen a bit of counterpoint - and even
> played it. :) Though I'll give Beethoven's "Große Fuge" a go.
>
> The intention is to hear examples of strong, independent voices in a big
> orchestra. I can imagine that most composers didn't go too far, in the
> iterest of having discernable music and not one great mush. But I'd like
> to know what can be done, and what people have done, when they wanted to
> do more than simple accompaniment to the main melody. If you put 19th
> centure concertos on one end of the spectrum (e.g. Grieg's A minor piano
> concerto) and something like Beethoven's 9th symph0ony on the other end,
> I'm looking for more works on the latter end. I need some inspiration
> and practical demonstration of techniques/scoring.

If you are concerned about orchestration of polyphony (your own or an
orchestration of someone else), then I'd grab an orchestration book and
study examples of fore/middle/background techniques[1]. Of course,
Mozart's Jupiter symphony is by far one of the more complex examples
(quintuple fugue). Adler analyzes this section quite nicely (pulled book
off shelf and blew the dust off :) ). There are other examples that are
analyzed in that section and although not strictly polyphonic, they
detail the idea of orchestral colors for each of the elements
(fore/middle/background)--and of course, what is polyphony if not a
collection of elements ...

Have a look at Mahler, Symphony #5 2nd and 3rd movements. The 3rd has a
small fugue that is developed throughout. Brahms' Symphony #1 1st
movement has "vertical" polyphony per se and the presto has wonderful
imitation based on the rising/descending lines of the introduction. And
of course, Holst Planets (Jupiter): wonderful fore/middle/background
technique.

Hope that helps ...

[1] Adler: The Study of Orchestration (Ch 15)
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Received on Tue Nov 1 20:15:03 2016