Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Preach it! [was: Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer etc.]
From: Marek Peteraj (marpet_AT_naex.sk)
Date: Tue Nov 30 2004 - 14:40:52 EET
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 13:20, Marek Peteraj wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 03:17, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 19:42:32 -0600, Ryan Gallagher
> > <ruinaudio_AT_comcast.net> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 00:55 +0100, Marek Peteraj wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:14, Ryan Gallagher wrote:
> > > > Linux users are still a minority and linux audio users
> > > > > an even smaller one, downright miniscule. We should try to stay "real"
> > > > > in estimating our tiny presence in this huge industry.
> > > >
> > > > Ok let's get this straight. ;)
> > > >
> > > > (why do we always underestimate ourselves)
> > >
> > > Come on... reality check. The mail lists for
> > > Avid->DigiDesign->Pro-Tools alone dwarf LAU.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure that the PTLE list for only x86 hardware, which is
> > probably closer to what 90% of LAU users are trying to do, dwarfs LAU.
> > Add in Mac PTLE users and it probably doubles or possibly triples.
> > After that the big boys are incremental. There are certainly fewer of
> > them, but you can pretty much expect that there are 2 or 3 engineers
> > at least from every Pro Tools based studio out there, and there are a
> > lot of Pro Tools based studios.
> > >
> > > The linux-audio market isn't a fly-fart in sulfur mine to these 2nd tier
> > > companies (m-audio et. al.). They're competing for crumbs from the
> > > giant's (digidesign) lap anyway.
> > >
> > > > Suppose that each city and perhaps a fairly large town in the US and
> > > > Europe has got at least *one* linux audio user.
> > > >
> > > > Likely? I think so :)
> > > >
> > > > How much users would that be? Hundreds? More?
> > >
> > > Hundreds. And the money we (LAU's) spend on audio gear in a year per
> > > company wouldn't pay the salary of the person who pushes "send" on the
> > > "we don't plan support" emails for a month.
> > >
> > > > Now let's look at the "tiny" linux audio market. Ask everyone what unit
> > > > he has got. I bet it's going to be 2/3rd RME 1/3 Maudio.
> > >
> > > I'd venture to guess that if EVERY LAU signed a petition to support only
> > > one company in return for drivers/support... it'd mean nothing. To be
> > > honest, I'm grateful for any "support" official or otherwise we get.
> > > IMO it's a cheritible act for these profit driven (not meant in a
> > > negative way) manufacturers to spend/risk revenue on what is still
> > > largely a hobby OS (speaking of linux desktop/audio here only).
> > >
> > > > > 1) second the validity of your statements regarding OS representation
> > > > > (LAU is a pretty insular community, sometimes it feels bigger than it
> > > > > is)
> > > >
> > > > Sadly it's exactly the opposite.
> > >
> > > Bottom line, these companies are not stupid. They know where the money
> > > is, and it ain't on LAU. If it were, they'd be here too.
> > >
> >
> > Yep...however the smart ones look for ways to both incrementally
> > increase revenue, and then also to create revolutionary changes. I
> > keep thinking that one of these days Digi will come out with a closed
> > system that is Linux based and includes the PC itself. Incrementally
> > it wouldn't cost them all that much to add a PC to some unit like the
> > 002 Rack. Most users would use external audio drives so internal
> > storage requiremments aren't that high. They'd have control of the OS
> > and it would be stable.
> >
> > For the last 6 months PTLE users have been caught in a bind. No PTLE
> > versions run on XP Service Pack 2 so all PTLE systems have to stick
> > with a bad version of Windows that isn't getting updates. I'm scared
> > to do much on the net with my PTLE machine. I don't know why Digi
> > hasn't fixed this. I guess it's hard. The plugin vendors have told us
> > their plugins aren't stable on SP2 either, so it's a mess.
> >
> > But before we totally discount the idea of LAU/Ardour type apps
> > failing in comparison to Digi I'm reminded of when I wrote a post
> > there and a couple of guys jumped up and started building Planet
> > machines to try it out. Problem was it was too hard to build and
> > Fernando wasn't supporting it yet. Today they would have a much easier
> > time. For fun I answered a year old question in that thread and popped
> > it back to the top of the list.
> >
> > http://duc.digidesign.com
> >
> > Look at the PTLE on Windows forum.
> >
> > FYI - There are 48700 registered users of the DigiDesign forums...
>
> So how big would the number of sold units be? I believe that a *lot* of
> those customers had at least one problem, registered and asked on their
> forums. Dobule or triple the number.
>
> The samller card manufacturers usually deal with smaller numbers.
>
> 1000 and growing is a very interesting number to me.
> *sigh* Wish i was a card manufacturer.
BTW, let's compare:
Digi002 fw interface 8 analog i/o
ProTools recording sw, plugin bundle, and perhaps other software tools
1199euro
Fireface, 10 analog i/o
no software (usually worth another 1000 euro)
1300euro
No wonder there's 50.000 users on their forums.
Marek
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